I would suggest that you should consult, for example, the Commerce Department and ask them this question: "Do you think that the State Department has done a good job of coordination on the Marshall proposal?" I predict the answer will be "Yes."

Mr. STEFAN. What was their part in that?

Mr. REBER. The Commerce Department, the Agricultural Department, the Department of Labor, and the Treasury Department have all had a very important part.

Mr. STEFAN. Why not ask all the departments that question?
Mr. REBER. Surely. I did not mean to exclude any.

Mr. STEFAN. What technological data were you referring to a while ago?

Mr. REBER. You see, certain important technological information is classified. The military services control that. For example, there are technological matters involved in a petroleum process. A machine embodying that technology might be sold abroad. The question is whether it is desirable to export that technology in the form of the machine, whether it is desirable in the national interest, whether it is possible to prevent its export.

Mr. STEFAN. Why?

Mr. REBER. Simply because I am not intimately familiar with this subject and have not checked with the people in the Division of Commercial Policy to know whether they would like to have this information on the record or not.

Mr. STEFAN. Of course, the Commerce Department does license. exports, does it not?

Mr. REBER. That is right.

Mr. STEFAN. Where do you correlate your work with them on thatand I am speaking now of the technological information?

Mr. REBER. A petroleum company has a chance to sell a piece of petroleum machinery abroad. We will say that it will be sold to an unsettled area; political relations are unsettled there, and the company, not knowing whether it would be desirable from the standpoint of national interest to send that petroleum equipment, comes to the Department of State, to our Division of Commercial Policy, and asks for the State Department's view.

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Now, it is the job of the Division of Commercial Policy to give advice to that company, to state whether in the Department's view there would be any harm in sending this equipment. It may say that it would be questionable whether it would be in the national interest. However, it is not possible to forbid the export of such material.

Now, the desire of the Department is to get the policies established with regard to this question insofar as it is possible in order to give guidance to companies which inquire. It uses the committee to explore and recommend generally the policies in this connection.

PERCENTAGE OF DEPARTMENT SERVICE ESTIMATE FOR ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES

Mr. STEFAN. Mr. Secretary, what percentage of your request of $21,780,000 for Departmental Service is for economic activities, including liaison with agencies of the Government?

Mr. PEURIFOY. Economic and commercial, Mr. Chairman, about 13 percent.

Mr. STEFAN. What was the percentage in 1940 and 1941?
Mr. PEURIFOY. May I supply that for the record?

Mr. STEFAN. Yes.

(The information requested follows:)

PERCENTAGE COMPARISON OF STATE DEPARTMENT EXPENDITURES FOR ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES 1940, 1941, 1949

The State Department budget for fiscal year 1940 provided 14.16 percent of total departmental salaries for its economic offices.

For fiscal year 1941 this percentage was reduced to 13.05 percent.

For fiscal year 1949 the estimates indicate a further percentage reduction to 12.75 percent.

Mr. ROONEY. You spoke a while ago of one of these committees meeting in the evenings from 8 to 11 o'clock. Do they receive overtime pay for that?

Mr. REBER. No.

Mr. ROONEY. Is that the practice of most of these committees, or is that an exception?

Mr. REBER. I named an exception. Most committees meet during working hours. I took the extreme case of the coordination for the Marshall plan, and I merely meant to indicate the urgency to secure effective coordination.

TUESDAY, JANUARY 27, 1948.

Mr. STEFAN. The committee will come to order.

When we concluded, yesterday, we were interrogating the Assistant Secretary, Mr. John Peurifoy, with regard to the total budget of the Department of State.

SUMMARY JUSTIFICATION DATA FOR DEPARTMENT SERVICE

I believe it well to insert at this point in the record the summary justification data for the Department service.

(The data are as follows:)

SECRETARIAT STRUCTURE OF THE DEPARTMENT

Mr. STEFAN. Our information is that the secretariat structure of the Department totals 250 employees at a cost of about $990,000. This includes the Executive Secretariat, the United Nations Secretariat and the UNESCO staff. This is almost one-twentieth of your total budget. Please explain that.

Mr. PEURIFOY. Yesterday, sir, in my statement, I pointed out that there were certain divisions that were placed in the Executive Secretariat, such as the Protocol Division which resulted in increasing the number of individuals in that organization.

Mr. STEFAN. This does not include the protocol.

Mr. PEURIFOY. The Protocol Division is part of the Executive Secretariat.

Mr. STEFAN. That excludes protocol personnel. Here are 250 employees costing you about $990,000: the Executive Secretariat, the United Nations Secretariat and the UNESCO staff-one-twentieth of your total budget.

Mr. HALL. The Executive Secretariat is $528,175 which does inIclude the Protocol Division.

Mr. STEFAN. We include only 55 in the executive secretariat. Mr. HALL. That would include Mr. Reber's office, Mr. Chairman. Mr. PEURIFOy. I believe that is more than Mr. Reber has on his staff.

Mr. HALL. I do not have it broken down that way.

Mr. STEFAN. That was taken from the organizational chart.

Mr. HUMELSINE. I have the break-down of the Executive Secretariat but I have nothing that will give that figure of 55.

Mr. PEURIFOY. I just want to be sure we are talking about the same thing, sir.

Mr. STEFAN. Have you the organizational charts there, sir?

Mr. HALL. That 55 figure constitutes merely the Committee Secretariat Branch and the Policy Registry Branch.

Mr. HUMELSINE. There are only 26 people in the Committee Secretariat Branch at present.

Mr. HALL. Thirty-seven is the figure we have for 1949.

Mr. HUMELSINE. For 1949 it is 37. That is one of the increases we have requested: 11 jobs.

Mr. HALL. The Committee Secretariat Branch-correct me if I am not correct in this, Mr. Humelsine-is the unit in the Secretary's office that is concerned with the committee work of the Department. Mr. HUMELSINE. That is right.

Mr. HALL. Now, the second item that you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, I believe was the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

Mr. STEFAN. There are two in UNESCO. Would that not be in Ross' office?

Mr. HALL. No.

Mr. STEFAN. What about the United Nations Secretariat?

Mr. HALL. The group in New York are concerned with the Secretary General. That is really a diplomatic title for Chief Administrative Officer of the mission in New York concerned with the maintenance of our relationships with the United Nations.

Mr. STEFAN. The break-down in the chart is, as we read it, the Executive Committee for Economic Foreign Policy and International Social Policy, 7; Scientific and Cultural Cooperation, 11; Executive Secretariat, 55; State, Army, Navy, and Air Force, 6; United Nations Mission, 133, and UNESCO 41, making a total of 253. That is more than 250, as I stated before. Is that correct?

Mr. PEURIFOY. The 133 figure here, of course, is Ambassador Austin's office in New York. He will appear before you to justify the 133 there.

Mr. STEFAN. But that secretariat structure throughout the department totals 253 employees and costs $990,000-almost one-twentieth of your total budget.

Mr. PEURIFOY. Yes, sir; of which over half, a little over half is with Ambassador Austin in New York.

Mr. STEFAN. Half is with the American section of the United Nations?

Mr. PEURIFOY. Yes, sir; the 55 which is the next largest figure there, Mr. Humelsine is prepared to justify that to you. The Scientific and Cultural Cooperation, that is 11; I believe you are quite familiar with what they do. That is the Inter-American cooperation program, working with the other agencies in the Government.

Mr. STEFAN. I am calling attention to it because of the top-heavy force.

Mr. PEURIFOY. Yes, sir; but the people here for the State, Army, Navy, and Air Force Secretariat is a group that has been attempting for the first time, which I think has proved very helpful, to coordinate the views of the Department of State and the armed forces of this country.

Mr. STEFAN. By totaling the supervisory, secretariat, and administrative costs, the Department is asking for about $11,000,000 or 51 percent of the total request. Would you care to comment on this seemingly excessive top-level organization?

Mr. PEURIFOY. Well, if I get the import of that, supervisory, of course, is quite a broad term. I do not believe that with an organization of this size, where your budget totals $198,000,000, you could have any fewer people in that capacity. You have supervisors at all levels in the Department. It does not mean, necessarily, the top level. Mr. HALL. On the administrative level, I think we might point out that that includes services which are not normally administrative, such as our whole communications, service, the Office of the Foreign Service which is the field office for the Department of State, and includes many other functions which, because of the character of the Department's business, are not normally included in administrative offices in the Government service. The Department is also unique and different from other departments of the Government in that the budget office is a central office for the whole Department, whereas departments which are on a bureau basis have decentralized personnel activities, budget activities and other administrative services which, in the Department of State, are centralized.

About the secretariat, I would just like to make a point again for the record that the 133 people in New York are not part of the secretariat structure of the Department of State; nor are they engaged in secretariat activities. Their main work deals with our relations with the United Nations.

Mr. Chairman, I am not certain whether the $11,000,000 includes the Office of Controls or not. But I think we should point out that the Office of Controls includes a large number of people who are concerned with services to American nationals abroad and to American business abroad.

SALARIES AND EXPENSES, DEPARTMENT OF STATE

STANDARD CLASSIFICATION SCHEDULE