Mr. HALE. I do not propose to state that we have as many members as the American Legion. They claim 1,000,000 members; I say we have somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000, but it is impossible for me to give you the exact figures because members are coming in so rapidly that our adjutant general can not tabulate them.

Mr. KITCHIN. You have more members of your organization who saw service overseas than the American Legion, perhaps? Mr. HALE. Unquestionably.

Mr. TREADWAY. Your membership is really smaller in view of the fact that men who did not see overseas service are ineligible to become members of your organization; that is, the 2,000,000 men who did not actually go overseas would be ineligible in your organization?

Mr. HALE. I would not want to let that statement stand, that there would be less than the American Legion, because there were over 2,200,000 men who were on the other side, and eventually, I think, our organization will embrace all those men.

Mr. HAWLEY. There are other organizations of soldiers of the recent war besides yours and the American Legion.

Mr. HALE. I understand there are several. There is the organization of Private Soldiers and Sailors and Marines, and there is also the organization of the World War Veterans.

Mr. HAWLEY. Can you give the number of members, approximately?

Mr. HALE. No, sir; I would not care to commit myself on that because I could not give you an intelligent answer.

Mr. YOUNG. Can you tell us about how many members of your organization were Spanish-American War men?

Mr. HALE. I should say there were between 50.000 and 60,000, but I can not tell you that definitely.

Yesterday, Mr. D'Olier made certain statements not germane to the matter under consideration, and as the representative of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, I feel impelled to correct an erroneous impression his remarks have probably created. It is well known that the "patient dint and the powder shock will blast an empire or a rock"; and apropos of Mr. D'Olier's claim for full credit in perfecting the passage of the so-called Sweet bill, the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States are content to occupy the rôle of the "patient dint."

Mr. TREADWAY. Mr. Chairman, I do not think we ought to take up the discussion here of these various organizations. It is evident from what the gentleman has said so far that there is some rivalry between these organizations.

Mr. GARNER. Suppose there is, why should not we have the viewpoint of the various people on this proposition?

Mr. HALE. It will only take a moment to finish my remarks along that line. I think in justice

Mr. TREADWAY. I withdraw the objection.

Mr. GARNER. I think we should have some understanding about this. Mr. Treadway addressed his remarks to the Chair.

Mr. TREADWAY. I did.

Mr. GARNER. He called attention to the fact that it was suggested that we should prevent one witness from criticizing another. I do

not see how we can possibly get at the facts in this matter unless we permit one witness to point out the errors of another witness.

The CHAIRMAN. If the committee will permit the Chair, I do not think it is proper for witnesses to criticize each other. It is proper for them, however, to state their views as to their ideas of matters that have been presented to this committee by the other witnesses; but Ifdo not think it is proper for them to engage in personal criticism of each other.

Mr. TREADWAY. The only point I was raising

Mr. KITCHIN (interposing). I do not think this committee represents any one of these organizations; there are three or more organizations of soldiers represented there-the organization of the gentleman now addressing the committee, Mr. Miller's organization, and Mr. Sperry's organization of Private Sailors and Soldiers, and others. I do not think we should be partisan to any one of them. This gentleman now addressing the committee represents the men who actually went overseas, who actually faced the dangers and ran the risks.

The CHAIRMAN. So do the gentlemen representing the other organizations.

Mr. KITCHIN. He has a right to speak his views freely, although they might not coincide with the views of the members of the committee or with the views of the representatives of these other organizations.

Mr. TREADWAY. I was not criticizing the statement; I was criticizing that he started out directly finding fault with the testimony given yesterday.

Mr. KITCHIN. Then let him do it.

Mr. TREADWAY. I withdrew the objection, although I maintain this committee has no interest in the rivalry of the organizations. The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Mr. Hale.

Mr. HALE. For three months before that legislation received favorable treatment at the hands of Congress the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States worked steadily, and I wish to say to Mr. D'Olier and the other representatives of the American Legion that the Sweet bill would have been enacted into law just when it was enacted whether or not the American Legion suddenly bestirred itself at the opportune moment, rushed into the limelight, and claimed all the glory. The knowledge of a good deed faithfully performed is its own reward, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States are content that their wounded and maimed comrades are now enjoying the benefits of that legislation irrespective of who claims credit for its passage. For in the final analysis the Members of Congress are the ones to whom the credit is due.

I have felt it incumbent upon me to make this reference to our organization and its achievements because we have not enjoyed the publicity or contributions that have come to the more widely estabfished American Legion, but this committee should not lose sight of the fact that ours is a truly veterans association, and that my voice is merely a vehicle for conveying to you the hopes and purposes of more than 400,000 men who have served in Flanders, France, Italy, England, Belgium, Russia, and Germany itself.

And so it is with the present legislation. There has been no equivocation or vacillation in the attitude of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States regarding back pay for the ex-service men and

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women. Many of the members of this committee, and particularly your honorable chairman, know how insistent we have been in our plea for action on this question; and we have not hesitated to express our opinion as to the legislation we sought in dollars and cents.

On September 29, 1919, nearly six months ago, your committee held a similar hearing-which has become notorious among ex-service people because of its sterility. And notwithstanding the fallacious insinuation that to grant the veterans additional compensation would "commercialize their patriotism," the eyes of approximately 4,000,000 ex-service men and women are focused on the sittings of this committee, and in the heart of each is a hope that the outcome of this hearing will be less barren than its predecessor.

To the apt pupils of that specious sophistry, "Commercialized patriotism," we tender our disgust. When you analyze the patriotism-God save the mark of such self-appointed censors of "Patriotism," it is a curious fact that it is of the "passive" varietyquiescent patriotism-that does not induce or impel them to forsake the ease of civil life and take up the burdens of a military career.

By request of the National Legislative Committee of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, I will confine my discussion to two propositions:

Notwithstanding the fact that our membership is composed solely of veterans who have seen foreign service-of men who have served in every clime, and the boys who served over there-in Flanders, France, Belgium, Italy, England, and Russia-yet we are catholic in our legislative aims. By that I mean we advocate such legislation as will benefit the ex-service men and women whose duties held them on this side as well as the men who braved the submarines and fought on the battle fields of Europe.

At the national encampment of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, held at Providence, R. I., August 21-24, 1919, delegates from posts representing every State and Territory of the Union, including Panama and the Philippines, unanimously indorsed the demands of the ex-service men and women for legislation that would in a small way recompense them for the monetary loss sustained by reason of their service; and unstintedly pledged the influence and support of our organization for legislation embodying the principles of the bill introduced by Royal C. Johnson, of South Dakota. It is gratifying that Congress has at last decided to register its approval or disapproval of the plea made by our country's defenders for financial assistance that they so sorely need at this time.

For the enlightenment of those members of this committee who are not aware of the fact, thousands of ex-service men have suffered keenly for lack of appropriate clothing during the past winter, occasioned by the straitened financial circumstances and inability to obtain remunerative employment. Taken suddenly from civil life, all moorings cut adrift, absorbed by the military régime, then just as suddenly released from military life with "sixty pieces of silver" as their stock in trade. Ask yourselves how far $60 will go toward reclothing a man or woman in this day of riotous profiteering. Discharged-back again in "cits." But the old job gone. Disillusioned and brought face to face with the ingratitude of republics. How wonderfully alluring the promises that were made as the boys marched away-and how religiously they have been observed in the

breach. We men who have endured the trials and hardships of actual service can recall the acclaim and huzzas that rang in our ears as we paraded up Pennsylvania Avenue on our return home as best qualified to adjudge and appraise the hollowness and sham of our reception. Lip appreciation-nothing more. And when at last we were honorably discharged, and possessed the coveted red chevron, what an odious comparison between our station in civil life and that of the boys who helped win the war by raising wheat at $2.25 per bushel, Government guaranteed; or the patriotic munitions maker who worked for $8 and $12 per day to keep us supplied with shells and small-arm ammunition; or the brave shipbuilders who worked so hard to turn out cargo carriers and troopships to take us across and keep the canned willy, the gold fish, and the prunes streaming across the western ocean-true they worked like Trojans at giant wages, and to-day they have comfortable overcoats and furs, and many of them flivvers, while many of the ex-service men are still wearing their Army overcoats.

Is it any wonder that they champ at the delay in granting them simple justice? Is there any reason to wonder why they are resentful? No. The only wonder is that, after what they have suffered and sacrificed, they exercised such long suffering and patience, which proves their innate Americanism, their faith in their country, and their belief that the weight of public opinion will counterbalance the apathetic indifference of Congress and result in the dispensation of justice.

The question of legislation beneficial to the ex-service men and women should be above partisan politics; it should be revered ground upon which the members of the opposing political faiths may meet in concord and harmony to promote the interests of the exservice men and women who so richly deserve your recognition. And, gentlemen, if common justice is done there will be credit and glory enough for all who help in any way in procuring the enactment. of suitable and appropriate legislation, be he Republican, Democrat, mugwump, or bitter-ender.

The Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States are concerned with only two measures. We advocate the passage of legislation that will afford partial remuneration to the ex-service men and women who sustained material monetary losses due to their service in the military and naval forces of the United States. No sum that this Government might bestow could even inadequately repay them for their achievements. If it were not for the men who stopped the Hun at the Marne and along the Meuse and those never forgotten days of September to November, 1918, Providence alone knows what would be the present status of this Nation.

In seeking relief at the hands of Congress the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, have carefully sifted the various so-called but misstyled "bonus bills"-and studied the situation from every intelligent angle, and have been equally solicitous for the welfare of the Government as for the interests of the veterans. It is our thought that if Congress will enact a law granting $30 per month for each month or fractional part of a month served by the ex-service men and women it will be accepted by them as an expression of the country's appreciation, and will at the same time not strain the Nation's re

In reach in this conclusion the Veterans of Foreign Wars

have endeavored to establish a figure which will equitably represent the average monthly earnings which each ex-service man and woman should have been able to effect if they had been permitted to continue in civil life.

It is the intention of the Veterans of Foreign Wars to impress upon this committee the vital importance of passing immediate legislation extending financial aid to the ex-service people. It is what the vast majority expect, and will most fully appreciate. It will provide them the capital so urgently needed in the transitory stage from military to civil life.

In urging legislation that will give relief based on length of service the Veterans of Foreign Wars are actuated by that well known axiom "The laborer is worthy of his hire," and recognize that the man who served longest is entitled to the largest return, for he has been separated from his usual vocation longest and will find it more difficult to adapt himself to civil life after his military experiences, and will require a longer time to weld the broken chain of his career.

The Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States believe that the funds to make practicable the legislation recommended should be drawn from those able to pay, and should in all justice bear the expense that is the wealth of the country; and suggest that the necessary revenue be obtained by the imposition of the graduated tax, beginning with 2 per cent on incomes in excess of $50,000, and reaching a maximum of 7 per cent on incomes in excess of $1,000,000 per annum. This roughly, based on the information obtained from the Internal Revenue Office, would yield approximately $200,000,000 per annum. The interest on $2,000,000,000 of bonds at 4 per cent would amount to $85,000,000 per annum, and the residue after the payment of interest, or approximately $115,000,000 should be set aside by the Secretary of the Treasury as a sinking fund for the retirement of these bonds, the bonds to be for 20 years but redeemable in 10 at the option of the Government.

Secondarily the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States are interested in some plan that will enable the ex-service people to become property owners, not at the expense, but with the assistance of the Government. Some plan that will make the acquisition of a home reachable but totally removed from any charge of gratuity. Various measures have been proposed, so-called land settlement bills. The national legislative committee of the Veterans of Foreign Wars has carefully scrutinized these various bills and the one sponsored by Representative Dick Morgan, designated H. R. 5544, appeals more strongly to its support. With slight modifications this bill would be acceptable to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, but it should be so modified as to permit the purchase of a home or a farm commensurate with the applicant's station in life and provide that the Government, after proper and competent appraisal, will advance not to exceed $4,000 on first mortgage, the balance of the purchase price to be evidenced by second mortgage, if necessary, running to the original owner of the property. The provisions for financing, interest, and repayment are satisfactory.

But it must be remembered that the Veterans of Foreign Wars are opposed to any colonization scheme; the expression of the members in all sections of the country condemn this plan. They have had sufficient colonization during their army experience. If