Mr. HUMELSINE. Well, yes, sir. For example, in the detection of these devices, I mean these agents have quite often been in danger. Well, I had better say this off the record. Senator LANGER. Mr. Humelsine, the men working for the FBI, and in the Narcotics Division, they have a special sort of retirement, as you know, a preferential retirement due to their duties and I was wondering if your agents working for the State Department are in the same category. Mr. HUMELSINE. No, sir, they are not. They are under the Department, or under the Foreign Service, but I do not know whether you could honestly say that these fellows are in as much jeopardy and as much danger as an FBI agent, or one of the narcotics agents. I just do not know. I would have to investigate that to give you an answer, because I don't know the basis for that special legislation but, to answer your question, they are not under any special arrange ment. [There appears to be a break in the transcript at this point.] Senator FERGUSON. Could we have the last date of that? Mr. BOYKIN. The last investigation was in 1950, of this particular one. Senator FERGUSON. 1950? Mr. BOYKIN. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Has it ever been evaluated? Mr. BOYKIN. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. What was the result of the evaluation. Mr. BOYKIN. Favorable. Senator FERGUSON. In other words, there was nothing wrong with the man? Mr. BOYKIN. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. And the FBI, or officers that collected the evidence, do no evaluating? Mr. BOYKIN. No, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Someone else evaluates it?" Mr. BOYKIN. That is right. [There was discussion off the record.] THE WITNESS COMMENDED Senator MANSFIELD. I want to say, I have been very much impressed with Deputy Under Secretary Humelsine, and his presentation here this afternoon, and it would be my hope that this committee could be kept more fully informed of developments of this nature, because I think it would help us individually and as a committee to have a better comprehension of just what we have to face. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. I want to say that the only things in the record that possibly should be straightened up are, it might be implied that the witness meant to criticize congressional committees for that investigation, which is their function. Now, I do not think he wants that to stand, I am sure. Mr. HUMELSINE. I had no such intention and I think a careful reading of my remarks will so disclose, Mr. Chairman. If it show otherwise, I would like to strike any of that, because that most certainly is not my desire. THE MATSON TESTIMONY The CHAIRMAN. I rather think that when I come to look at the evidence of this man Matson, that I have heard this morning as I said, and when you look at it you will be impressed that, here is a situation that requires cleaning up, because he tells of some instances, as I say, he didn't seem to be a willing witness, and we are all interested in good government, and certainly if we are going to get anywhere we have to get cooperation between the two branches of the government, seeing that both branches are clear and functioning efficiently, so that we can get results. Mr. HUMELSINE. I have an open mind on this particular case, and I assure you I will look into it honestly and try to do the right thing. FOREIGN HOTELS WIRED FOR SOUND Senator HICKENLOOPER. I just wanted to ask Mr. Humelsine if it is not quite a generally accepted idea that practically all hotels in Europe, let us say, and many foreign countries, when they are built. or after they are built, are pretty well wired for sound, for hookups -maybe not with the most modern devices, but it is rather a foreign custom-so that they can hook on to almost any room with comparatively little effort if they want to, and whenever you travel, you may bet that it is at least a 75-percent shot, if you are known as a government official, that the room is wired? Mr. HUMELSINE. We think it is higher than that. Senator HICKENLOOPER. I was trying to be moderate about it, and I think it is 100 percent in every hotel in Europe. Mr. HUMELSINE. We figure that every time someone goes abroad. we go on the assumption that there is always a microphone in the room. Senator HICKENLOOPER. So do I. Senator FERGUSON. That is true with the Secretary of State or anybody else? Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir. When the Secretary goes abroad, the Secretary of State, we go through those rooms with a fine-toothed comb and we use our special equipment to try to be sure that they are all right, but with this [There was discussion off the record.] HAS APPROPRIATIONS BEEN KEPT INFORMED? Senator MANSFIELD. May I ask one more question. Senator MANSFIELD. Mr. Secretary, have you ever appeared before an appropriations subcommittee dealing with State Department affairs in the House and Senate, and have given them a resume such as you have given me this afternoon? Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir. Not as complete, but I have tried to keep the committees abreast of this, although I have not been before a committee in, I guess, close to a year now on this subject. Senator MANSFIELD. You have kept the appropriations subcommittees and the State Department appropriations fully cognizant of what you have been doing in this area of loyalty checks, firing of homosexuals, and so forth? Mr. HUMELSINE. Yes, sir. Senator MANSFIELD. That is satisfactory. Senator TOBEY. Now, your department didn't have anything to do with having some department head do its dirty work in tapping wires in Washington? Mr. HUMELSINE. No, sir. Senator TOBEY. Thereby hangs several tales. The CHAIRMAN. Yes. WILL COMMITTEE GET A REPORT ON MATSON CASE? Senator HUMPHREY. Are we to assume that Mr. Humelsine is to give us a report on that case we have been discussing, the Matson case, so we will know just what transpired in the security files, is that correct? The CHAIRMAN. That depends. I don't know that Senator HUMPHREY. I understood Senator Ferguson asked for that. Senator FERGUSON. I did. SERIAL NUMBERS A GOOD IDEA Senator HUMPHREY. I believe the suggestion which has been made in terms of serial numbers of contents of all security and personnel files is a very practical suggestion, and one that should be pursued. I realize there is something under way now about that, but I think Mr. HUMELSINE. We agree with that, and hope that this committee will make recommendations to the Appropriations Committee for the additional help, when the time comes. Senator KNOWLAND. Off the record. [There was discussion off the record.] The CHAIRMAN. The danger of the homosexual situation was illustrated when even one of your recruiting officers was discovered to be Mr. HUMELSINE. We have found homosexuals everywhere. The CHAIRMAN. Answer the question, please, about the recruiting officer. HAS EVALUATION BEEN IMPROVED ? Mr. HUMELSINE. I understand, yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Now then, have you improved your evaluation process of the FBI files? Mr. HUMELSINE. Have we improved it? The CHAIRMAN. Yes. Mr. HUMELSINE. I don't quite follow your question. The CHAIRMAN. In evaluating the FBI files. Mr. HUMELSINE. We are constantly striving to improve our evaluations. We think we have some pretty competent men doing evaluations. Evaluation, of course, is always a matter of judgment. The CHAIRMAN. Well now, gentlemen Senator HICKENLOOPER. Take this off the record. [There was discussion off the record.] The CHAIRMAN. All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. [Whereupon, at 5:25 p.m., the committee stood in recess, subject to call of the Chair.] MINUTES MONDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1953 UNITED STATES SENATE, Washington, D.C. The committee met in executive sessions at 10 a.m. Present: Chairman Wiley, Senators Smith, Taft, Ferguson, George, Green, Fulbright, Sparkman, Gillette, Humphrey and Mansfield. The committee considered first the nomination of Donald B. Lourie, to be Under Secretary of State for Administration. Mr. Lourie testified. After some discussion, the nomination was ordered reported unanimously. The committee next considered the nomination of James J. Wadsworth, to be the deputy representative of the United States to the United Nations, and deputy representative of the United States in the Security Council of the United Nations. Mr. Wadsworth was present and answered inquiries of members of the committee. His nomination was ordered reported unanimously. For record of proceedings, see official transcript. The committee adjourned at 12:15 p.m. P.S.-Senator Tobey, unable to be present, requested that he be recorded in favor of both the nominations reported. (109) |