Mr. MARTIN. Not at all. My main connection, in the first place, was my fear of an injury to the soldiers and the workmen and the country from turning out large numbers of people in unemployment in the winter of 1919. That was the first interest I had.

Mr. LONGWORTH. But what you really want to do is to advocate the single tax as the method of raising the money necessary to pay whatever may be decided upon by Congress?

Mr. MARTIN. No; I am perfectly satisfied with a tax on sales. I think that would be an excellent method.

Mr. KITCHIN. How about a tax on incomes in excess of $25,000? Mr. MARTIN. I think I should agree on that. I think that is very proper. I think a man who stayed at home and did not go to war to defend his country and made an income in excess of $25,000 in this country would not object to paying a tax necessary to give these boys a fresh start in life. A soldier is turned out with $60, barely enough to buy a suit of clothes, and I believe the men with large incomes would not object to the neceessary taxes. I think they will be glad to pay it and that would raise much more money than would a tax on sales. I think that the committee has no reason to fear that. Just one word upon that, Mr. Chairman. I do not believe that the United States of America is in any danger from lack of resources to bear all the burdens financially that the war imposed on them. It seems to me at times that our Government hardly realizes the immense productive resources of this country. We have 30,000,000 workers in the United States. They are capable of producing $2,500 worth of wealth apiece with the aid of machinery in this country. That is $75,000,000,000 of wealth that undoubtedly could be produced annually in the United States. The national productive capacity does not need to fear its ability to raise $2,000,000,000 to pay $500 apiece to give a fresh start in life to the exsoldiers. I do not think anyone need fear on that score, that the people of the country will not cheerfully pay it.

Mr. TREADWAY. Did I understand you to say you received no recompense of any kind whatever from Mr. Sperry or the organization of which he is the head?

Mr. MARTIN. That is the private soldiers' legion, and as I have mentioned, I have not been a member of it or received any compensation from them at all. It is the pleasure of my life to do something to help the soldier.

Mr. TREADWAY. That is solely the ground on which you are connected with it?

Mr. MARTIN. I think that is not exceptional with me. I believe every American citizen has sympathy with the soldiers.

The CHAIRMAN. I never saw so many people in my life trying to do something for somebody else. Every fellow coming before the committee receives nothing for his services and spends his own money to do something for the soldiers.

Mr. MARTIN. Let me develop that in my case. I believe that in securing justice for the soldiers and in securing an opportunity for every man in America to have an opportunity for employment, I am doing the best thing I can possibly do for myself as a citizen of the United States. I have followed the question of unemployment. When I was a boy 15 years old I started out on a tramp looking for a job. It is a serious matter with lots of people.

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Mr. TREADWAY. As I understand from an inquiry of Mr. Kitchin and your statement, you formerly had some connection with the Anti-Trust League?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TREADWAY. And that organization had a large membership? Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TREADWAY. What do you calculate the membership of that was?

Mr. MARTIN. I do not think I ever made an estimate. It is impossible to tell, any more than you could the membership of the Republican Party or the Democratic Party to-day.

Mr. TREADWAY. Was there any organization?

Mr. MARTIN. There was not any enrolled membership. It was a voluntary association, just like a political party.

Mr. TREADWAY. My thought was this, whether or not your experience in having managed that large organization led you in any way to be interested in this effort to get in a list of subscribers or members in these numerous soldiers' organizations that we have heard so much about.

Mr. MARTIN. I have nothing to do with that part. Their work on their list is entirely their own. The only thing I have done is to assist them in the preparation of their legislation and arguments in support of legislation. They run their organization entirely themselves and take care of their membership. I do not know anything about their business or membership or the methods and have no interest in their business organization.

Mr. TREADWAY. Are not these offices that they maintained rather limited to a very few people around there? It was represented that you and Mr. Sperry were probably occupying the ex-soldiers-offices. Mr. MARTIN. Whoever intimated that was ignorant of the facts or willfully attempting to deceive the committee.

Mr. TREADWAY. They were pretty large offices.

Mr. MARTIN. Not necessarily large offices. They had three offices or one suite in the building, and I think perhaps a fourth one; they had a half a dozen clerks, a bookkeeper, stenographer and typewriter for conducting the correspondence.

Mr. TREADWAY. Was the other office a newspaper office? Was that represented as a sort of one-man office?

Mr. MARTIN. I was never in that office, as I recall, but twice, and the two times that I was there, on each of those occasions, there was only a man or two there.

The CHAIRMAN. Did I understand you to say a few moments ago that you had furnished information that was the result of bringing a suit for the dissolution of the Steel Trust?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. When did you furnish that information?

Mr. MARTIN. In 1911 and 1912.

The CHAIRMAN. The suit was begun in 1911?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir. That suit was begun as a result of the evidence furnished by the Steel Trust investigation committee of the House, and I furnished to that committee much evidence.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the result of that investigation?

Mr. MARTIN. The result of that investigation was that the committee of the House reported that the Steel Trust was guilty of violating the antitrust laws on numerous counts.

The CHAIRMAN. What did the courts do?

Mr. MARTIN. The court in New Jersey acquitted and the Government appealed the case to the United States Supreme Court, and the newspaper report that I read yesterday said that five judges were in favor of conviction and four of them were in favor of letting them go and two of the judges who were in favor of convicting did not vote. So the steel trust escaped.

The CHAIRMAN. The Supreme Court, then, on Tuesday last declared that they were not a combination in violation or restraint of trade?

Mr. MARTIN. A minority of the court did. Four members; that is a minority.

The CHAIRMAN. I beg to differ with you; four to three.

Mr. MARTIN. I stand on the record. Four is a minority of the

court.

Mr. KITCHIN. Two of them did not vote.

The CHAIRMAN. A quorum was present when they rendered a decision.

Mr. MARTIN. I was not there.

The CHAIRMAN. But you read it in the paper. What did the paper state about it?

Mr. MARTIN. The paper said there were five of them in favor of conviction, but all of the judges in favor of conviction did not vote. The CHAIRMAN. We read different papers, because the paper I read stated that four judges decided they were not in violation of the laws.

Mr. KITCHIN. But two did not sit.

The CHAIRMAN. The paper did not say anything about the other two. I suppose they were away sick or fishing. It was 4 to 3 that the Steel Trust was not a combination in restraint of trade.

Mr. MARTIN. The court stated there was no evidence they had committed violation of the law since 1911. The court did not deny that there was violation in 1911.

Mr. KITCHIN. When did the Stanley committee report ?

Mr. MARTIN. 1912.

Mr. KITCHIN. The suit was brought early in 1911.

Mr. MARTIN. Upon evidence declared before the committee. I was in the hotel where the Assistant Attorney General was preparing the

case.

Mr. GARNER. You said you had made visits to Mr. Lundeen's office.

Mr. MARTIN. I prepared the bill with a resolution and he introduced it.

Mr. GARNER. How many times did you visit that office in connection with this resolution or any other legislation?

Mr. MARTIN. He introduced the resolution the first day I presented it.

Mr. GARNER. How many times before that did you visit that office with reference to this or other legislation?

Mr. MARTIN. I never visited his office before that time but once. I met him several times afterwards.

Mr. GARNER. Was anyone else with you at any of the times? Was Mr. Sperry with you any time you visited his office?

Mr. MARTIN. I think he was there once, possibly twice.

Mr. GARNER. Really, Mr. Lundeen's office was the headquarters for the propagation of legislation with reference to the soldiers?

Mr. MARTIN. No; I do not think so. He was interested in this one resolution very strongly. That is the only one. I recall that there were one or two other bills. Congressman Claypool, of Ohio, introduced a resolution for the remission of courts-martial fines, and those are the first ones that they put in.

STATEMENT OF MR. RICHARD SEELYE JONES, MANAGING EDITOR, THE STARS AND STRIPES, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. YOUNG. I think we should avoid listening to fights between rival organizations that are represented at the hearing. A lot of time has been wasted.

Mr. JONES. I have no statement to make, Mr. Chairman. I simply came here at the request of some members of the committee to answer questions and give any information that I can.

Mr. KITCHIN. How much did you pay Lovenbein for the list?
Mr. JONES. I think he was paid $50 for it.

Mr. KITCHIN. When he turned it over to you?

Mr. JONES. That payment was made at the time the secretarytreasurer of the company was sent to Mr. Ryder, our circulation manager, who got the list from Lovenbein. It was simply an advertisement that he picked out for it. I believe whatever he paid he paid out of his own pocket.

Mr. KITCHIN. You do not know what it was?

Mr. JONES. My impression was he paid $50 for it.
our books would show that we paid anything for it.
Mr. HAWLEY. Do you know how much was paid?
Mr. JONES. Mr. Ryder told me that he paid for it.

I doubt if

Mr. HAWLEY. Are you in favor of the proposition now before the committee that some legislation shall be enacted by Congress providing a bonus and other means of relief for service men and women of the late war?

Mr. JONES. I would say that, unlike some of the witnesses, I do not speak for an organization of 500,000 men or anything else. am simply an editor of a newspaper which is largely read by service

men.

Mr. HAWLEY. You have a policy?

Mr. JONES. Rather on the contrary, our policy is to reflect the opinions of our readers. We are reporters of and not molders of public opinion.

Mr. HAWLEY. What is your information from your readers relative to the matter?

Mr. JONES. That the service men are overwhelmingly in favor of some financial compensation for what they lost.

Mr. HAWLEY. Do you know which proposition they favor, the payment of $50 a month or $30 a month, or $1 a day, which is practically the same thing, vocational education, some home-building proposition or some land settlement arrangement?

Mr. JONES. All of them have been advocated in different localities and by different organizations.

Mr HAWLEY. Which has the greatest support?

Mr. JONES. I think the cash bonus has probably the greatest number of former soldiers supporting it.

Mr. KITCHIN. Are you a member of the American Legion?
Mr. JONES. I am a member personally.

Mr. KITCHIN. Did you have any foreign service?

Mr. JONES. Yes; two years.

Mr. KITCHIN. In what particular division of the service?

Mr. JONES. I enlisted in the Eighteenth Engineers and was transferred to the Stars and Stripes service. That was at that time the official newspaper of the Army in France.

Mr. KITCHIN. You ran this paper in France?

Mr. JONES. I was with it in France.

served on it.

Mr. KITCHIN. You were on the staff?

Mr. JONES. Yes.

Mr. TREADWAY. It was an official paper?

A large number of men

Mr. JONES. It was the official paper of the American Expeditionary Army. It is now a private enterprise.

Mr. TREADWAY. It is simply the same in name.

Mr. JONES. That is all.

Mr. HAWLEY. You say that the ex-service men and women are overwhelmingly in favor of a cash bonus.

Mr. JONES. I would not say overwhelmingly. I think there are probably more in favor of cash than anything else. There have been many resolutions passed by the World War Veterans and other organizations, expressing preference for farm land or city land or Vocational training. I am simply giving you my opinion from the correspondence that comes into our office. There are more soldiers favoring the cash bonus than any of the other plans suggested.

Mr. HAWLEY. Of the four and a half million men, ex-service men, in round numbers, how many have you heard from directly or through organizations, upon which you have formed this opinion? Mr. JONES. From organizations, it is very hard to tell. We receive copies of resolutions passed by organizations in all parts of the country which may represent many hundreds of thousands all told. Directly we receive many letters from soldiers who are not organized. You will bear in mind that while there are many organizations such as you have heard from here, probably 60 per cent of the former soldiers are not members of any organization. They are still unorganized and have no voice.

Mr. HAWLEY. What number of communications or resolutions did you receive that are opposed to any such legislation?

Mr. JONES. I would just estimate that 90 per cent of what we received are in favor and possibly 10 per cent opposed to a cash bonus. Mr. GARNER. Have you received any in opposition to a cash bonus? Mr. JONES. Yes; the American Legion of Louisiana opposed the cash bonus and advocated a loan. Several counties in Kansas did the same thing, advocating a farm loan and opposed cash. Mr. GARNER. Did they do that in other places?

Mr. JONES. I am not familiar with it. In New York City the posts are opposed to it, while the up-State posts are in favor of a cash bonus.