Mr. SIEGAL. Oh, well [laughing). The CHAIRMAN. I may be very much below the amount. Perhaps you do laugh at me, Mr. Siegal. But, do you question the amount you paid the pencil company? Mr. SIEGAL. Yes, sir; we are going to prove that Biggs got $40,000 more than he acknowledged he got. The CHAIRMAN. How much do you claim you paid the pencil companies, now? Mr. SIEGAL. I am claiming that the pencil companies got out of the campaign every dollar but $1,800. The CHAIRMAN. I am asking you a perfectly plain question: How much altogether do you claim that you paid the pencil companies? Mr. SIEGAL. That is a pretty hard question. The CHAIRMAN. Isn't it $160,000? Mr. SIEGAL. Oh, no; it is a whole lot more than that. The CHAIRMAN. Certainly you can show vouchers for what you paid? Mr. SIEGAL. Yes. We claim that P. C. Smith Co. got at least $140,000 for themselves. The CHAIRMAN. You certainly ought to be able to prove that. Mr. SIEGAL. Yes. Donnelley got $40,000; and that is $180,000. And there were a lot of other expenses and things incidental to the campaigns and incidental to carrying on our offices and organizations for several years. The CHAIRMAN. You are quite certain about this $13,000 that is the maximum you spent for assisting disabled men? Mr. SIEGAL. Yes, sir; that is reasonable. The CHAIRMAN. But you don't know whether you are able to prove it? Mr. SIEGAL. I think we will be. Mr. CONNERY. Even if we take the lowest figures of the pencil campaign and everything else, you spent $200,000 and gave $13,000 to the service men; and the rest out of $75,000 you kept for office expenses? Mr. SIEGAL. I imagine that is about the right proportion. The CHAIRMAN. This is the first time it has been stated just how much you spent with disabled men? Mr. SIEGAL. That was always the amount named, and I tried to bring it out before the Post Office Department. They asked me how much we were going to show, and I said about $13,000. Major SHAW. You claim you can show vouchers for that amount? Mr. SIEGAL. I certainly do. I said we claim we spent $13,000 for disabled men in cash or moneys, railroad fare, for lodging; and I gave to the Post Office Department all of the vouchers and things I had in my possession. Major SHAW. I am just curious to know whether you are arguing or answering questions. Mr. SIEGAL. I am not trying to put anything over on you; I am just answering your questions. The CHAIRMAN. Are you ready to call a witness? Mr. SIEGAL. We will call Mr. Conner. TESTIMONY OF HAYS E. CONNER (The witness was duly sworn.) Mr. SIEGAL. What was your C. C. number before the Veterans' Bureau? Mr. CONNER. No. 486173. Mr. SIEGAL. Are you a veteran of the World War, Mr. Conner? Mr. CONNER. Yes, sir. Mr. SIEGAL. What was your service? Mr. CONNER. I was at Dayton, Ohio, in the Aircraft; also at Kelley Field, and also at Jefferson Barracks, Mo. Mr. SIEGAL. Did you come to Washington for the purpose of pressing a claim in the Veterans' Bureau? Mr. CONNER. I did. Major SHAW. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt just a second? I was present at the hearings at the Post Office Department, and I saw in procession a number of such witnesses. I assume that there is intent to duplicate that procedure here, but there was no production of books or accounts. It seems to me that these proceedings will be very greatly facilitated by the production of accounts and not by the introduction of a succession of witnesses such as appeared at the post-office hearings. Mr. CONNER. I tried to get these in over there. The CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Siegal, we will put on a few witnesses and we will see. Mr. SIEGAL. You can tell me when to stop, and I will stop whenever you want me to. The CHAIRMAN. Some of the members were not there and we want to hear a few witnesses. Mr. SIEGAL. When did you come to Washington for the purpose of pressing your claim? Mr. CONNER. I came in September. Mr. SIEGAL. September of what year? Mr. CONNER. Of 1924. Mr. SIEGAL. And when you came here in September, 1924, where did you go? Mr. CONNER. I went to one of the hotels when I got in here on a Thursday. The next day, on Friday, I think it was, I went up to the Veterans' Bureau. Mr. SIEGAL. What was your financial condition at that time? Mr. SIEGAL. Who did you see at the Veterans' Bureau? Mr. CONNER. Well, I saw the ones in room 1000. I saw Miss Catherine Dority; I seen Major Gilstrap and, I believe, Major Patton that day. Mr. SIEGAL. Were you sent anywhere so that you could sleep? Mr. CONNER. Yes, sir; I was sent over to the Red Cross. Mr. SIEGAL. Who sent you to the Red Cross? Mr. CONNER. Mrs. Busbey. Mr. SIEGAL. And who is Mrs. Busbey? Mr. CONNER. Mrs. Busbey, so far as I know, is one of the contact people in room 1000. Mr. SIEGAL. Room 1000 of the Veterans' Bureau? Mr. CONNER. Room 1000 of the Veterans' Bureau. Mr. SIEGAL. How long did you stay at the Red Cross? Mr. CONNER. I didn't stay. Mr. SIEGAL. What happened? Mr. CONNER. I asked them for money to stay overnight, until I could get some evidence that I wanted at that time. Mr. SIEGAL. Evidence to present at the Veterans' Bureau? Mr. CONNER. Evidence to present to the Veterans' Bureau, I got nothing. Mr. SIEGAL. Do you know the National Disabled Soldiers' League? Mr. CONNER. I did. And I have heard of them often. But I got mixed up, and it was later on that I met them. Mr. SIEGAL. When did you first meet them? Mr. CONNER. Why, I went to Mount Alto. I think the date-I don't know as I could Mr. SIEGAL. You went to Mount Alto after you got to Washington; is that right? Mr. CONNER. Yes, sir. Mr. SIEGAL. And while at Mount Alto, Washington, did you hear of the National Disabled Soldiers' League? Mr. CONNOR. Yes, sir. Mr. SIEGAL. From whom did you hear of the National Disabled Soldiers' League? Mr. CONNER. From men who were disabled. Mr. SIEGAL. In the hospital? Mr. CONNER. Yes, sir. Mr. SIEGAL. And as a result of talks that you had with those men did you go to the National Disabled Soldiers' League? Mr. CONNER. I did not. I thought it was the D. A. V. at the time, and I went to the D. A. V. Mr. SIEGAL. What occurred there? Mr. CONNER. What? Mr. SIEGAL. What occurred to you there? Mr. CONNER. They told me-Mr. Chambers told me he had no funds to help the boys-he could help me for five and a half days, I think it was, with food and lodging. Mr. SIEGAL. Did you get food and lodging for five days? Mr. CONNER. Not at that time; I did later on. Mr. SIEGAL. When did you get in actual contact with the National Disabled Soldiers' League? Mr. CONNER. Well, after I came away from Mount Alto on A. W. O. L., on account of the fact that I had to pay some debts that were incurred when I lost my wife on the 16th of August, and also I had to pay some interest-pay on $3,000 that I had borrowed while I was sick, the last six years since I left the service without very much or no care from the Veterans' Bureau. Mr. SIEGAL. And then you went to the National Disabled Soldiers' League? Mr. CONNER. I did. Mr. SIEGAL. Who did you see there? Mr. CONNER. I saw Mr. McCann, and at the same time I saw Mr. Nolan. The first time I was in Mr. SIEGAL. Did you apply at the National Disabled Soldiers' League for relief? Mr. CONNER. I did. Mr. SIEGAL. What did you ask for? Mr. CONNER. I asked-I had at that time friends here in town and I had got a little money from some newspaper men and other friends out home sent to me, and from my brother, and I didn't have quite enough, so I asked Mr. McCann if he could help me to make up the balance, and he said "certainly," and gave me the money. Mr. SIEGAL. How much did he give you? Mr. CONNER. I think at that time-to make the balance of that; I don't remember-I believe it was around about $5. Mr. SIEGAL. Did you ask to be placed in any place where you could get something to eat and a place to sleep? Mr. CONNER. Yes, I did. Mr. SIEGAL. Did they send you anywhere? Mr. CONNER. They did-no; he didn't send me; he gave me money. Mr. SIEGAL. How much money did he give you? Mr. CONNER. I believe at that time he gave me $5; he gave me money several different times. Mr. SIEGAL. Did he offer to send you to the Shepherd House? Mr. CONNER. Yes, he offered to send me to the Shepherd House or Y. M. C. A.; he said anywhere I wanted to go. Mr. SIEGAL. Did you refuse to go to the Shepherd House because of your physical condition? Mr. CONNER. I went-the reason I got the money, I told him that the doctors-I had been to Colorado and at the Fitizsimmons Hospital the doctors had recommended that I eat no meat, and that I needed eggs and milk, and I told him I would like to have it for that purpose. Mr. CONNERY. Mr. Conner, is that your name, Conner? Mr. CONNER. Yes, sir. Mr. CONNERY. Weren't you in six different hospitals? Mr. CONNER. Let us see: I have been in Fitizsimons twice; I have been in the Mercy Hospital twice; I have been in the St. Joseph Hospital at Denver once; I have been in Fort Collins Hospital, and several times the hospitals was full, and I could not get in; and I have been to Mount Alto. Mr. CONNERY. Did the Veterans' Bureau put you in those hospitals? Mr. CONNER. Yes. Mr. CONNERY. Did you refuse to stay in those hospitals? Mr. CONNER. I went A. W. O. L. at Mount Alto because I was losing a lot of my property, unless I-that I spoke of-first at Mount Alto, and I told you the reason I came from the other hospitals. I came to Mr. Rathbone here in the House from Walter Reed, and stated the reason of it-that reason I have absolute proof of. I came away two weeks ago again from Walter Reed Hospital, after getting fooled-sent out there and being fooled, I came away, and I will show you my physical condition by Doctor Shearer when I came in. Mr. CONNERY. You did leave these hospitals, without permission, did you? Mr. CONNER. I did. Mr. CONNERY. The whole six of them? Mr. CONNER. I left because I was going down, and did not get the treatment I should have. Mr. CONNERY. Are you classed as to your case in the Veterans' Bureau "under constitutional psychopathic case"? Mr. CONNER. I want to explain how I got that: While I was at Walter Reed the first time, the major in the I. E. N. T.-eye, ear, nose and throat-not the eye doctor-I had two operations there for sinus trouble, and the doctor examined me at the eye clinic and gave me a card showing appendicitis from sinus-got blind spots in the eye. I wished to get a pair of glasses. I broke my glasses that they gave me in 1921 in Denver, and I didn't have the money, because I had got so little bit all of this time; and I had a wife ever since I went out of the service that has been an invalid so I could not buy glasses myself; and I wanted to get the glasses. My eyes was bothering me so much. I signed for the first time N. P., or neuropathic; and I wouldn't have done it if I had known what deal they were going to hand me. These glasses cost me, that I have to pay, $486. I want to show you those $486 pair of glasses. Mr. CONNERY. How do you mean your glasses cost you $486? Mr. CONNER. I will explain how they cost me; I had spent that much and borrowed from friends to try to get my case through for three or four months, and I signed that card and kicked about it at the same time, because I had never been in the neuropathic ward before. Mr. CONNERY. But you say, Mr. Conner, that those glasses cost you $486. But every time the Veterans' Bureau sent you to a hospital you left, did you not? Mr. CONNER. I want to show you the reason I left-the absolute reason. I have got a good reason. I will bring Senators and Congressmen here to show you why I left. I found out I could get a pair of glasses just like this [exhibiting glasses to the committee] for 15 cents at the store; that is the joke. Mr. CONNERY. When you went to the Disabled American Veterans, you went to their organization and asked for help, and somebody told you they could take care of you for five days or five weeks? Mr. CONNER. Five and a half days; that was Mr. Chambers. Mr. CONNERY. They knew that you had been in six veterans' hospitals and had left, did they? Mr. CONNER. What? Mr. CONNERY. They knew that you had been put in the hospitals by the Veterans' Bureau and had left those hospitals? Mr. CONNER. Yes; and I am going to bring that out pretty plain. Mr. CONNERY. Mr. Conner, how did you expect that the Veterans' Bureau would ever be able to fix you up on compensation if when they put you in not one hospital but six hospitals you were going away and leaving those hospitals, until they could finally settle on your case? Mr. CONNER. I didn't expect the Veterans' Bureau to ever fix me up. I have been at six hospitals and had 25 operations, and they turned me down from letters I can show-just turned me down and left me and my wife to lay there 1920, 1921, and 1922; and it took me five weeks to get from Dayton to Denver. Mr. CONNERY. If you believe that, why did you go into another Veterans' Bureau hospital after you left one? Mr. CONNER. I had to have operations. |