course, and one course only to take, one decision, and one only to arrive at, with respect to our Roman Catholic fellow-subjects. Do we intend, or do we not intend, to extend to them the full benefit of civil equality on a footing exactly the same as that on which it is granted to members of other religious persuasions? If we do not, the conclusion is a most grave one; but if the House be of opinion, as the Government are of opinion, that it is neither generous nor politic, whatever we may think of this ecclesiastical influence within the Roman Church, to draw distinctions in matters purely civil adverse to our Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen-if we hold that opinion, let us hold it frankly and boldly; and, having determined to grant measures of equality as far as it may be in our power to do so, do not let us attempt to stint our action in that sense when we come to the execution of that which we have announced to be our design. But there really, as I shall explain, is no room for any suspicion of either Ultramontane or any other influence with respect to the measure which I am now about to submit to the House. The truth is that circumstances entirely independent of our own will have precluded us from holding communications with any of the large bodies which may be said, as bodies, to be interested in Irish University education. The Governing Body of Trinity College, Dublin, have thought fit, in the exercise of their discretion-a discretion which they had a perfect right to exercise-to adopt a policy and to propose a plan of their own, or at least to associate themselves with the plan which was proposed in this House by the hon. member for Brighton, with the direct concurrence and sanction of one, perhaps of both, of the members of the Dublin University. That being so, it is obvious that it would not have been consistent with the respect which we owe to that learned body that we should have attempted to induce it by private persuasion to accept a plan of a different character, or that we should have entered into communications with it as to the nature of the proposal which we are about to lay before the House. Under these circumstances, the principles of equal dealing prevented us from similar proceedings in any other quarter. Therefore, the door was shut in that direction by no act of ours, but by an act altogether independent of ourselves; and consequently it was plain that the best course for us to take was to look as well as we could to the general justice and equity of the course we felt ourselves called upon to pursue, to devise a plan founded upon our own matured convictions, to spare no labour in drawing up the details of that plan, and to forego altogether the advantage-an advantage often considerable-of holding communications beforehand with the various parties who were interested in the matter. Therefore, the measure I am about to submit to the House is a measure solely of the Government. It is a measure of the Government alone; our responsibility for which is undivided, and our hopes of the acceptance of which are founded entirely upon what we trust will be found to be its equity and its justice. The provisions of the Bill have been drawn up without any disposition to shape them for the

purpose of currying favour or of conciliating any irrational prejudice, or of enabling the Government to pursue any other course than that which the most enlightened patriotism and the objects we have in view must dictate to every honourable mind."

Examining next the alternatives which had been offered to the Government or imputed to them, he declared that with regard to denominational endowment the Government was not only precluded from proposing it by their own pledges, but by a sincere belief that it would be unwise. The "Supplemental Charter" scheme had entirely gone by, and was not equal to the present emergency, and to set up another University by the side of Dublin University and the Queen's University would be no settlement of the question. Passing then to the principles on which the Government had determined to act, he started from the proposition that the exclusion of the Roman Catholics from University education in Ireland constitutes a religious grievance-a civil disability imposed for religious opinions. That both Roman Catholics and Presbyterians were debarred from the benefits of University education by their unwillingness to send their children to places where religion was not taught on authority as part of the system of training was a fact which, however some might deplore it, must be dealt with as a fact which could not be altered. To prove this, Mr. Gladstone quoted the

returns.

"In the Queen's College, Ireland, the total number of matricu lated students is returned to me as 708. The number of Roman Catholics among them is 181, or somewhat over one-fourth. But my proposition is this: in the return there is a fundamental fallacy; the great bulk of these matriculated students, or, at least, a very large portion of them, are simply professional students, and not students in art. But when we speak of University education as an instrument of higher culture, we mean University education in art; schools of law, schools of medicine, schools of engineering, and I know not how many other schools, are excellent things; but these are things totally distinct and different from what we understand by that University training which we look upon as the most powerful instrument for the culture of the mind. Therefore I am obliged to break down these figures in pieces, and ask, Out of these 181 students, how many are students in art? I now give the Roman Catholic students in art in the Queen's Colleges, Ireland. From 1859 to 1864, in these three Queen's Colleges, the Roman Catholic students averaged 59; from 1864 to 1869 they averaged 50; from 1869 to 1871 they averaged 45. I think these figures justify the statement that the numbers are miserably small, and, small as they are, they are dwindling away. When I speak of recognizing only students in arts, I am not hazarding the opinion of an individual; I am giving utterance to a judgment which I know every University man will sustain. It is the opinion upon which the University of Dublin has uniformly proceeded in its handling of this subject. The number of Roman Catholics matriculated as students in arts at Trinity College seems to be about 100. That

may not be the exact number, but, from the figures kindly supplied to me, it must be within two or three, one way or the other. Adding these 100 at Trinity College to 45 at the Queen's Colleges we have 145 as the whole number of persons whom 4,000,000 and upwards of Roman Catholics in Ireland at present succeed in bringing within the teaching of a University to receive academical training in the faculty of arts. Well, I think that is a proportion miserably small. It is something, but it is really almost next to nothing. Again, sir, the total number of students in arts in Ireland I find to be 1179. So that the Roman Catholics, with more than two-thirds-I think nearly three-fourths of the populationsupply only an eighth part of the students in arts. I think there are hardly any in this House who will think fit to say that that is anything like an adequate proportion-anything like the numbers which they ought to furnish, even after making every allowance which ought fairly to be made for the relative proportions of Roman Catholics in the different classes of the community. Well, I think, then, I have shown that there is a great religious grievance in Ireland. Had I been able to point to a state of things in which the movement was in the other direction-in which, instead of an almost constant decrease of Roman Catholic attendance at the Queen's Colleges, there was a steady, healthy, and progressive increase the case would have been greatly different. You might have said, 'It is well to wait and see what happens.' But I am afraid if we wait to see what happens, the only result of that would be to aggravate a state of things already sufficiently bad.

"I now, sir, quit the topic of the religious grievance. But quite apart from the religious grievance, there is a great and strong necessity for academical reform in Ireland. I will test the question first as to the quantity or supply of academical training in that country; and all along I will keep broadly and plainly in view the distinction between training in arts and mere professional training. Now, in Trinity College there are attending lectures in arts 563 young men, about the same number-I think it is a little moreas attend in Trinity College, Cambridge. In the Queen's Colleges the students in arts are as follow-I take the year 1871, which is the latest I possess:-At Belfast, 136; at Cork, 50; and at Galway, 35-in all, 221. Adding these two figures together we get 784 as the total for Ireland of University students in the proper sense of the word; that is to say, in the sense in which it is understood in Scotland, much more in the sense in which it is understood in England. Seven hundred and eighty-four is the whole number of students who are receiving regular instruction in arts, for the whole of Ireland, with its five millions and a half of population. But there are a large number of students in the Queen's Colleges who are receiving professional education in law, in medicine, and in engineering. The number of these is at Belfast, 201; at Cork, 174; and at Galway, 80-in all, 455. Thus, when we include students preparing for a professional career with the arts students, we come

up to 1239. Finally, there are a large number of persons who belong to Trinity College, Dublin, who have the honour of paying, without any deduction, all the fees of Trinity College, Dublin, but who receive from Trinity College, Dublin, no other benefits-and great benefits they are shown to be, or the price would not be paid for them-than those of examination and a degree. The number of these is 395, so that in this way we get up the number of University students in Ireland to the very poor and scanty figure of 1634, of whom less than one-half are University students in the English or in the Scottish sense of the word. Of students in that sense in Ireland there are but 784, against 4000 whom Scotland, with not much more than half the population, sends to her Universities. I think that is a pretty strong case as regards the absolute supply of University and academic training in Ireland. But the case is stronger still when we consider the comparative state of the academical supply. Take the Queen's Colleges-those valuable institutions which we should heartily desire to see in a flourishing condition. From 1859 to 1864 they matriculated on the average 226 persons per annum. This is in arts and other faculties taken together. From 1864 to 1869 they matriculated 1039 persons, or an average of 208 persons. In each of the years 1870-71 they matriculated 200 persons. Thus, as far as the Queen's Colleges are concerned, even the present narrow supply of academic training is a supply tending downwards. What is the case as regards Trinity College? Having a strong sentiment of veneration and gratitude for that institution, which has done in Ireland a large portion of the good which has been done for her at all, I observe with the greatest regret the decline in the number of students there. I now draw no distinction between resident and non-resident students; and I find that during the period of years from 1830 to 1834 the annual matriculations were 433. Then, taking a period of fifteen years down to 1849, at the end of which the Queen's Colleges were founded, the matriculations had sunk to 362 per annum; while from 1849 to 1872 they had again sunk to 295. Thus, sir, we find, upon examining this matter to the bottom, that, notwithstanding the efforts of Parliament, notwithstanding the general increase of education, notwithstanding the opening of the Queen's Colleges with large endowments, the University students of Ireland in the proper sense-that is, the students in arts-are fewer at this moment than they were forty years ago, when no Queen's Colleges were in existence. I have shown you that, at this moment, the students in arts in Ireland, even including men who are merely examined and who do not attend lectures, only number 1179; but I find that in 1832 the students in arts at Trinity College alone were 1461. Sir, I think 1 have now sufficiently made good my case as to the supply of academic training in Ireland and the necessity of reform so far as such a necessity can be deduced from the mere paucity of supply."

But beyond the religious grievance, he maintained that academical reform is needed in Ireland by reason of the present insuffi

ciency of academical teaching and thestrangely defective constitution of Trinity College. Here, again, Mr. Gladstone went deeply into statistics to prove that University education in Ireland is declining, and that there are now fewer students in arts than there were forty years ago. Discussing the second cause which calls for academical reform, Mr. Gladstone dilated on the anomalous position of the University and the strange inversion of the relations between it and Trinity College. This led him into a long retrospect of the history of the University, from which he drew the conclusion that by its original design the University was always intended to include several colleges, and that, in fact, various colleges had from time to time existed, although none had survived but Trinity College. On this historical conclusion he based the main principle of the Bill: that the University of Dublin-as distinct from Trinity Collegeis the ancient historical University of Ireland, and that within its precincts should be effected the academical reform which is needed. Before proceeding to describe the mode in which this principle will be carried out, he mentioned as a collateral proposition that the Queen's Colleges of Belfast and Cork will be retained, that the Galway College will be wound up by 1876, and that it would be proposed to merge the Queen's University into Dublin University, although on this last point he seemed ready to defer to the judgment of the House.

"I come now," he said, " to the question of the practical principles on which we hope Parliament will conduct that great academic reform to which I have pointed by means of the measure we are about to introduce. By what principles are we to be guided in that reform? Parliament has been recently engaged in reforming the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge; it has laid down very sound principles with respect to these Universities; these principles have not reached their fullest development, but still there they are; they have received deliberate sanction, and it is upon these principles that we propose to go with respect to the University of Dublin and Trinity College. What, then, are the great principles upon which Parliament has acted with respect to the English Universities? First of all, it has abolished tests. Upon this point there is practically no difference of opinion, because while the whole Liberal politicians of the country have desired that abolition for its own sake, under the circumstances of the time that boon is freely offered with an open hand by the authorities of Trinity College and the University of Dublin itself. But this is a negative rather than a positive reform. The next principle has been to open endowments. Where endowments are tied up by particular provisions in such a way as to render them the monopoly of comparatively few, Parliament has endeavoured to widen the access, and to increase the number of those who may compete for them, with the conviction that that is the way to render them more fruitful of beneficial results. The next, and perhaps most important, principle has been to emancipate the University from the Colleges. That is what we did at once in