It was also decided that the matter should not be, that no conclusion on the matter should be reached by any person concerned or by the President until over the week end because it required a great deal of thought in the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

We met again at the President's call on Monday morning.

At that time General Bradley gave the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The President then asked each one of us in turn for his opinion or his recommendation as to whether or not General MacArthur should be relieved, and each one of us gave his opinion and each opinion was that he should be relieved.

The President then directed that the necessary orders and papers should be prepared for his consideration and that that should be done, should be in the charge of General Marshall, the Secretary of Defense, and that the rest of us should put ourselves at General Marshall's disposal for such consultation as was necessary.

The orders were prepared. They were brought to the President on the afternoon of Tuesday, at which time they were gone over and approved by the President.

Senator WILEY. Was the opinion unanimous at first?

Secretary ACHESON. The opinions were not expressed until the afternoon-until the morning of Monday. There was discussion of the subject, but it was clearly understood that nobody was expected to or should reach any conclusion on the matter.

FIRST DISCUSSIONS ON MAC ARTHUR

Senator WILEY. Was the 5th the first time that the President had spoken to you about recalling MacArthur?

Secretary ACHESON. Yes, sir.

Senator WILEY. Had never spoken to you before on that subject? Secretary ACHESON. I don't recall any discussion. I will not say that the whole matter of the President's satisfaction or lack of satisfaction with General MacArthur had not been referred to.

I had another meeting with the President in connection with the MacArthur statement of the 24th and at that time

Senator SALTONSTALL. 24th of March?

Secretary ACHESON. Yes. At that time we laid before the President certain steps which we thought should be taken for his consideration and approval. He considered and approved those.

Now, one of those steps was to send a message to General MacArthur, which you have had before you several times.

The other step was that I asked to be given the authority to say to the ambassadors of the countries with whom we had been working on the statement that General MacArthur's statement was unexpected and unauthorized and steps had been taken to prevent a repetition.

Senator WILEY. Mr. Secretary, the time flies so that I am going to ask you some of these questions hurriedly.

EFFECT OF MAC ARTHUR DISMISSAL ON JAPAN

Can you tell us what the effect of recalling MacArthur has had on the situation in the Far East, particularly in relation to Japan and the Japanese people?

Secretary ACHESON. The effect of the relief of General MacArthur in Japan was one of very considerable shock when it was announced. In order to deal with that situation the best way we thought possible, Mr. Dulles went out and had a great many conferences with_the Japanese, made a speech to them, talked to the various party members, and their Parliament, and made it clear to them that the matter of the Japanese peace treaty still remained one of the most urgent and of primary importance with us, and we were going forward with it. Fortunately, while he was there the President directed further arrangements in connection with the treaty to be negotiated with New Zealand and Australia. We were making arrangements for the Philippines. All of that helped very much to restore the view that we would not change in any way our policy.

Senator WILEY. Do you think it is restored now?

Do you think the condition is restored in Japan now?
What is the latest news on that?

Secretary ACHESON. I think that it is very largely restored. I am told that the various reports which have come out of this investigation here cause some uneasiness in Japan.

Senator WILEY. Can General Van Fleet negotiate a Korean armistice now, if an opportunity presents itself?

Senator HICKENLOOPER. What was that question?

POWER OF THEATER COMMANDER TO NEGOTIATE ARMISTICE

Senator WILEY. Can Van Fleet negotiate a Korean armistice now, if opportunity presents itself?

Secretary ACHESON. If any approach was made to General Van Fleet, he would immediately report to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and be instructed by the Government.

Senator WILEY. In other words, the general in the field if there was opportunity to negotiate an armistice, wouldn't have any authority until he had come back to the Chiefs of Staff; is that your idea?

Secretary ACHESON. He would be required to report to the Chiefs of Staff if any overtures were made to him.

Senator WILEY. This statement I read to you out of the paper seems to differ with what Van Fleet said recently. He said the thirtyeighth parallel means nothing to him.

Do you agree, it means nothing to the State Department, either?

Secretary ACHESON. From the military point of view, Senator, the thirty-eighth parallel has no significance. The troops have to move, and do move freely back and forth across it.

NO CHANGE OF POLICY IN RUSK SPEECH

Senator WILEY. From your remarks yesterday, I understood you to interpret the Rusk speech in New York, not as a change in policy, or hardening of policy against the Communists; it was not necessary, I understood you to say.

Do you interpret it as a turn in the direction of Chiang Kai-shek? Secretary ACHESON. I regard it, sir, as I said yesterday, and I have said several times, as a restatement of policy which has been in existence for some time.

It is a restatement.

I think there is nothing new in that speech.

Senator WILEY. Well, let's take the last part of my question. Do you think it indicates a little turn in the direction of Chiang Kai-shek and his forces?

Secretary ACHESON. I don't think it indicates anything different from what occurred before the speech was made.

POSITION OF HONG KONG

Senator WILEY. What effect would a blockade of Hong Kong have on the general situation? I see there is a considerable difference on that. I think it is only fair if you could very briefly tell us you own views.

Secretary ACHESON. Of the blockade of Hong Kong by whom? Senator WILEY. Well, general blockade. It would have to be by all parties concerned, I presume, the allies and ourselves.

Secretary ACHESON. Well, I was wondering whether you were talking about a blockade of Hong Kong by the Chinese or by the British or by us.

Senator WILEY. By the United Nations.

Secretary ACHESON. Well, I can hardly imagine a blockade of a British port by Great Britain and/or by the allies. The British are a part of the United Nations effort in Korea. They are cooperating in that. I do not quite see the United Nations blockading one of the British ports.

Senator WILEY. Well, my objective, and I will not stress it, was that I have seen recently that it is claimed that maintaining the open port of Hong Kong is more in favor of the allies and ourselves than closing it, which would have been an unfavorable effect. I wondered whether had any reaction on that or not.

you

Secretary ACHESON. Oh, yes; I do have a reaction to that. To have Hong Kong fall, to have to go over, fall into the hands of the Chinese Communists, would, I think, have a very adverse influence on the United Nations interests and on ours in the Far East.

It is an important point for observation and other important matters in the Far East. It is a point from which a great deal of important work can be done in China. It would be very serious to have that lost to us.

Senator WILEY. What have you to say as to the importance of the forthcoming bill for military and economic aid? This fits into this general picture.

Secretary ACHESON. I should just add, in connection with that, that Hong Kong is not a free port. Very strict controls have been imposed by the Hong Kong authorities and the trade which goes on be tween Hong Kong and the mainland is now under very important and very drastic controls. We hope in due course that those controls can be tightened. There are certain limits to what can be done there, because Hong Kong acquires its food and water and a great many things of that sort from the mainland, and in order to get that, a certain amount of trade has to go on.

SITUATION IN EUROPE

Senator WILEY. Mr. Secretary, where is the greater danger of the third world war breaking out-Europe or Asia, in your judgment?

Secretary ACHESON. I don't think I am able to answer that. I don't think anyone can say. In a situation which is tense one never knows where the spark may come from that might ignite the whole thing.

Senator WILEY. Are the economic prospects of Western Europe improving or vice versa?

Secretary ACHESON. I think the economic situation has been steadily improving in Western Europe; and in the last year or so, Western Europe has taken on an increased burden in regard to the rearmament program. I think that is being handled well, and I believe it can be carried on without dangerous results.

Senator WILEY. How are we getting along with the North Atlantic Treaty partners?

Secretary ACHESON. I think very well, Senator.

Senator WILEY. Is the Schuman plan going to be adopted, Mr. Secretary?

Secretary ACHESON. I hope it will be. It has been signed by the participants and will be referred to their legislatures.

Senator WILEY. Is our Government making any preparation for the blockade of the Chinese mainland?

Secretary ACHESON. The matter is under constant planning in the Government.

FORMOSA AND SEATING OF CHINESE REDS

Senator WILEY. Does our policy in the Far East now mean we will not surrender Formosa to the Reds, and will not stand for Communist China getting a seat in the UN?

Secretary ACHESON. I think I answered both of those questions yesterday, Senator.

Senator WILEY. In the affirmative?

Secretary ACHESON. We have, in regard to Formosa-the President has made our policy very clear on numerous occasions, that we are not going to allow it to be taken by force.

In regard-and, of course, it is now in the hands of the Chinese Nationalist Government, and will remain there.

In regard to the matter of seating, I think I went into that in great detail. We are bidding for 77 votes on that, and we have won 76 out of 77.

Senator WILEY. Do I understand from your answer that our policy definitely is that we will not consider any form of surrender of Formosa to the Reds, and will not stand for Communist China getting a seat in the UN?

Secretary ACHESON. I think on the first one, I have said that that is correct.

In regard to saying we will not stand for their getting a seat in the UN, I just don't understand the words you use. I have told you that we have opposed the matter, and we have opposed it successfully; that we will continue to oppose it, and that, I believe, since we have a just cause and persuasive advocates, we will continue to have the great majority of the nations with us.

Senator WILEY. Well, of course, out my way, when we say we won't stand for a thing, we understand just what that means, sir.

83797-51-pt. 3- -7

POSSIBLE CEASE FIRE IN KOREA

There is talk of a possible agreement with the Reds. What is the present situation?

Secretary ACHESON. Are you talking about a cease fire in Korea? Senator WILEY. Yes; any kind of agreement with the Red Chinese. Secretary ACHESON. I know of no such agreement being in—— Senator WILEY. Do you think any agreement with Red ChinaSenator BREWSTER. Would he finish that answer? He said he knew of no such agreement.

Secretary ACHESON. I would be glad to do so. I know of no such agreement being under negotiation or of any proposals having been made by the Red Chinese.

Senator WILEY. Just one question.

Secretary ACHESON. There are continuous proposals made by the Good Offices Committee, and none of those have been responded to by the Chinese.

Senator WILEY. Do you think any agreement with Red China or the Kremlin would worth the paper on which it is written unless you had force to back it up?

I think

Secretary ACHESON. I should not want to rely on an agreement as an agreement. I think an agreement which recognized and ratified an existing state of facts would have some importance. force, as you say, is very important in bringing that about. Chairman RUSSELL. Your time has expired, Senator Wiley.

CORRECTION OF RECORD

Senator KNOWLAND. Mr. Chairman, I have a procedural matter that will not take half a minute, but it is a correction in the record that I think should be made.

On page 4427, where I read from the State Department Bulletin of June 3, 1945, it shows in the second paragraph as being the bulletin of January 3, 1950. That was undoubtedly a mistake on the part of the reporter, who, perhaps, because June and January are so similar, put them that way; or I may have misspoken, but in any event

Chairman RUSSELL. Without objection, the word "January" will be changed to "June."

Senator KNOWLAND. And the date changed to 1945 instead of 1950. Chairman RUSSELL. 1945.

FUTURE WITNESSSES

Senator WILEY. Mr. Chairman, there was also a procedural matter that I wanted to take up, and I might as well make it a matter of record.

I saw in the paper when I was home the other day that there was some talk of 100 witnesses; and I, as the ranking minority member of the Foreign Relations Committee, ought to have a copy or a list of these 100 witnesses so that you and I might get together, or some one of us get together, to see if we can sift out some of them, and so forth. It seems to me that that is a very important procedural matter to follow.