does not want to go the full way because he feels that he does not want to tell everything, and then it is garbled information. I feel we are not doing a service to the American public in acting that way. I do not want my remarks misinterpreted. These things have happened since I have been here for 4 years, but it continues to repeat itself, and I am sure we all take this very seriously. When we are told about certain figures, you might talk about generalities, but when you are told a certain figure is confidential, you say it is confidential, and I do not believe it is right for one general to have one privilege that another general does not extend to those of us of this committee.

A SUGGESTED PROCEDURE

Senator SPARKMAN. Mr. Chairman, I have felt for a long time that we could remove a lot of this harassment that comes to us individually if we could adopt some scheme somewhat similar to that that was followed in the MacArthur hearings. I do not mean putting it out in great volume, but if we could have the transcript edited and any security stuff taken out and let the press have access to it after each meeting, that would help. They do harass us to death.

Now, I remember, for instance, a week or so ago we had a meeting in here of the Far Eastern subcommittee, with Mr. Dulles here. I had not more than gotten to my seat on the Senate floor when three press associations gathered together and sent in for me, and I refused to go out, and I never did go out to talk to them at all. Yet when I picked up the paper the next morning I found that I was quoted as having said that I made a motion here to make it public. Now, I did not make any such motion.

Senator SMITH. They said that I turned it down.

Senator SPARKMAN. Yes.

I did not make any such motion at that time. You remember I did make the suggestion that the chairman receive the press and put out any such statement that was going to be put out, and that is all I did. I did some time ago make this same suggestion that at our hearings-I mean hearings, not just discussions like that-that our hearings be edited so as to edit out any security matters, and then that the press be given access to it, because it builds up curiosity on their part, and one fellow gets one thing

Senator HUMPHREY. That is right.

Senator SPARKMAN [continuing]. And somebody else tries to beat it. Senator SMITH. The only trouble is that it delays them a day or two in giving them something.

Senator SPARKMAN. I believe that the staff of this committee The CHAIRMAN. There is just this that I ask, that I be instructed to send an appropriate message to the family of former Senator La Follette, who was a distinguished member of this body. Senator SMITH. I will be very glad to second it. Senator HUMPHREY. Yes, indeed.

PAST PRACTICE

The CHAIRMAN. Let me say that during the tim other chairmen, I thought the practice was tha

My protest is why a general can come back here from the Far East and say to the public and have it broadcast over the radio what I, as a member of this committee, have heard only 2 weeks ago, and I am not even permitted to talk to my wife about. I protest, and I say right now that the next time any of these generals come up here and tell me "This is off the record," I am going to say, "Which one of your aides is going to start talking to the public 2 weeks from now?".

It just does not make good sense. I have had a number of people write to me about matters that we heard in this briefing from General Bradley, and I have said, "Well, I am not at liberty to discuss this," and some of these matters, some of the same information, came in General Olmsted's report as of yesterday. Now, I am not criticizing him; I am just criticizing the procedure.

The CHAIRMAN. Isn't there a distinction between giving the factual information of so many planes, so much defense material, all that stuff-I did not hear this last night, so I do not know. Senator MANSFIELD. That is what he did.

The CHAIRMAN. I think there is a point to what you say, that there has been too much claim of it being confidential, and then they spill it. But I think the things that are confidential are the basic material facts in relation to materiel, the number of planes, the number of ships

Senator HUMPHREY. But he talks about the very same things. For example, do you remember the figure of so many trained commandos, Chinese commandos-do you remember that we were not supposed to talk about that? He gives the figure-he gave the figure last night, the very same figure.

Senator HICKENLOOPER. I could not agree with you more that it has been one of the most offensive things to me for a long time. Senator HUMPHREY. It is not new, by the way.

Senator HICKENLOOPER. We sit in certain committees and listen to information which they say must be completely off the record, and it cannot be talked about, and all this

Senator FERGUSON. In some cases that appeared

Senator HICKENLOOPER. Then you pick up the paper within about 3 days, and you find the whole thing is in there from an authoritative

source.

Senator MANSFIELD. This fellow gave all the figures Bradley gave. Senator HICKENLOOPER. I have a rumor, this is a rumor and I could not prove it at the moment, but I have a rumor that that information was in the hands of the press before Bradley came_over here to testify, a summary of what he was going to testify to. I say that is rumor, and I cannot prove it.

Senator HUMPHREY. When we leave these meetings, the people of the press harass us, and if you give them even an inkling you are up to your neck. I admit being guilty of these matters at times, and I want to tell you very frankly we are going to have it clear in here that it is completely off the record or it is on the record, and my opinion there is entirely too much off-the-record stuff. What happens is that there is a columnist who writes something, and another columnist writes something else, and pretty soon somebody

in

de full war because Le feels that he does not ing, and then it is garbled information. I feel ver fica to the American public in acting that vy. I do not want a y romarks misinterpreted. These things have ned since I wars been here for 4 years, but it continues to old, and I am sure we all take this very seriously. When we are told about certain figures, you might talk about generalities, but when you are told a certain figure is confidential, you say it is conferential, and I do not believe it is right for one general to have one privilege that another general does not extend to those of us of this committer.

A SUGGESTED PROCEDURE

Senator SPARRMAN. Mr. Chairman, I have felt for a long time that we could remove a lot of this harassment that comes to us individwalls if we could adopt some scheme somewhat similar to that that was followed in the MacArthur hearings. I do not mean putting it out in great volume, but if we could have the transcript edited and any seemity stuff taken out and let the press have access to it after each meeting, that would help. They do harass us to death.

Now, I remember, for instance, a week or so ago we had a meeting r here of the Far Eastern subcommittee, with Mr. Dulles here. I had not more than gotten to my seat on the Senate floor when three pros associations cohered together and sent in for me, and I refund to go out, and I never did go out to talk to them at all. Yet when I picked up the paper the next morning I found that I was quoted as having said that I made a motion here to make it public. Now, I did not neke any such motion.

Senado. Sp. They said that I turned it down.
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1 da ro, meke en spl. motion at that time. You remember I dark the engg e fon for the chairman receive the press and put

et was going to be put out, and that is all goro mal. Mis same suggestion that at our fus disenssions like that-that our

cil on any security matters, and then ir, bosanse it builds up curiosity

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would prepare a brief summary, and the chairman would release that which should be released, and I followed that practice, and the rule was that I did get no publicity, I did not consult with the people. I went on the theory that if we all got to talking we would garble it all, and that it was the chairman's business, and now we have one man among our experts here who has been under Senator Connally, the publicity agent, and doing other work, and with him and Wilcox they have prepared for me, after consulting with the main witness in the case, Bradley or whoever it was, what would be appropriate to release, that was released by the chairman, and that procedure, as I say, I followed the many years that I was down the table starting at the foot.

I realize that you are all harassed by these newspaper folks, and I guess we all are, and it is terrific how they can use their imaginations at times as to what you do not say; but I think you are facing a situation where you have either got to say, "Well, now, that will be taken care of by the chairman", or give the full story; that is your responsibility.

Of course, if it is the publicity that you want, I suppose you will get it.

Senator HUMPHREY. That is not my point-excuse me.

Senator TOBEY. Mr. Chairman, as I say, no Senator wants publicity, you realize that, do you not? You realize that no Senator seeks publicity.

The CHAIRMAN. You are humorous today.

Senator GREEN. Mr. Chairman, I think the point is that those who come before us ought to be warned they are not expected to tell outside what they tell us in secret inside.

Senator HUMPHREY That is the point.
Senator GREEN. That is the point.

UPDATE OF A PAMPHLET

Senator MANSFIELD. May I suggest that this booklet given to the committee this morning, "Tensions within the Soviet Union" be brought up to date? I think it is a valuable document, and the Library of Congress would do a good job to bring it up to date. The CHAIRMAN. That was done at my insistence, and it has been translated into foreign languages.

Senator MANSFIELD. It ought to be brought up to date.
Senator KNOWLAND. Lots happened in the last 2 years.

Senator MANSFIELD. Does that take a motion? Does that take a motion, Mr. Chairman?

The CAIRMAN. Well, I will so consider it.

Senator MANSFIELD. I so move.

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking that the Library of Congress bring it up to date for a committee print? Let the record show that that was done.

[Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the committee adjourned.]

MINUTES

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1953

UNITED STATES SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS,

Washington, D.C.

The Subcommittee on Overseas Information met in executive session at 2:15 p.m. in the Foreign Relations Committee room.

Present: Senator Hickenlooper (chairman), Senators Wiley, Mundt, Knowland, Green, and Fulbright.

The meeting dealt with organization and future plans.
For record of proceedings, see official transcript.

The subcommittee adjourned at 3:40 p.m.