such as I suggest, without any conclusions or deductions whatever, and we will leave it to the individuals to supplement it as they see fit with any statements they want to make, although I hope that we will not indulge in any general discussion of these matters pro and con at this time in the situation of world affairs as they are. And, therefore, I should be in favor of Senator Saltonstall's motion to report, if that is what it means. I am for it if he will state that is what he means.

But if it means a minority report, a majority report, and conclusions to be drawn, I would be against it because it may be very unfortunate.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Would the Senator yield?

Senator GREEN. Yes.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I distinctly said in my motion that no views be stated as the majority views.

Senator GREEN. But you also stated, if I listened correctly or understood it correctly, that these other differences of opinion were to be made a part of or annexed to it or published with it, and that, I think, would be very unfortunate.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I made a separate statement that members be permitted to file their views as individuals.

Senator GREEN. Of course, that they will have anyhow, but I doubt whether they should, and I do not think they ought to be incorporated in it or published as a part of the publication of the committee.

Senator BRIDGES. Mr. Chairman, will a substitute for the Saltonstall motion be entertained? I offer the following: That the joint committee shall issue a formal report to include conclusions on issues involved; that the report be transmitted to the Senate, together with the factual record of the hearings, and the same be done by September 1, 1951.

Chairman RUSSELL. Gentlemen, you have heard the substitute, which is in order.

Before we vote, Senator Saltonstall, do you wish to read your proposition so that the committee will be clear as to what is involved?

Senator SALTON STALL. Well, my motion, to which Senator Bridges has now made a substitute, is this: That the committee transmit and report to the Senate for its information the hearings and the records and the appendixes of its hearings; that the committee file no further report; that no views or conclusions be stated as the majority or minority views, but that the members be permitted before September 1 to file their views and conclusions with the chairman; that said views be gathered in one volume and request be made of the Senate to publish them.

Senator GREEN. Would the Senator be willing to strike the latter clause?

Senator SALTONSTALL. "Said views be gathered in one volume"? Senator GREEN. Yes, or that they be able to file their views. Senator SALTON STALL. Well, my thought behind that, Senator Green—and this motion, of course, is subject to any views that you may have my idea behind that was that it was fairer to every individual to have all the views published in one volume.

Senator GREEN. Yes, but you would be—if we undertook to do that, I think that would be very unfortunate to have those views published, and to emphasize the official character of the differences.

I am perfectly willing to leave it to every individual the question as to what views he wishes to express separately or with other Senators, but I think this report ought to conclude the work of this committee, and the committee ought to be discharged and not have anything more to do with it in promulgating the views of individual members. Let them do it themselves.

Senator CAIN. Senator Green, you, sir, think it would be unfortunate to have the differences made public. The Senator from Washington, with every respect for your view, takes a completely contrary

one.

It is my feeling, sir, that whatever the convictions are of the members of this committee would result in a more healthful situation throughout the country.

Senator GREEN. But there will not be anything in this report, as I understand it, that Senator Saltonstall and I both advocate, to show any differences.

Senator CAIN. Well, it is my opinion-that is why I gave a different view- that if there are substantial differences no harm will result from making those differences available in these unusual times to the public.

Senator GREEN. It seems to me-I am sorry I cannot agree-I think it would have a very unfortunate result abroad.

Senator LONG. Mr. Chairman, might I suggest that we proceed first to consider the substitute, and then it would be in order to consider the Saltonstall motion. If that is the case, it would be in order for Senator Green to move for a division of Senator Saltonstall's motion so that we could vote on it by sections.

Chairman CONNALLY. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Connally.

Chairman CONNALLY. I appreciate the significance of the Saltonstall motion, and I think that is about the only way out of this situation.

Now, those who want to make a report, a report on what? We had no bill before us, we had no resolution before us; we just simply said that we were going to hear this testimony.

Well now, the thing to do is to report this testimony to the Senate and say, "Here it is. This is all we have done. We have voted on no conclusion, we took no action," and it seems to me that the course for us to pursue is simply to report back to the Senate-if you want to call it a report-that we had these hearings, and here is the testimony, and leave everybody to draw their own conclusions, because we had really nothing before us in the way of legislation, resolution, or bill. We just simply had the witnesses before us, and having the witnesses before us, we took their testimony and recorded it, "and here, Mr. Senate, is the result."

I am in sympathy with the Saltonstall motion.

Now, so far as individual views, I do not think there is any harm in letting them be individual views. They can file their individual views here with the committee, and publish them in the hearings if they want to, but so far as any formal action of a minority, I do not

approve.

us.

Senator STENNIS. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman RUSSELL. Have you concluded, Senator Connally?
Senator CONNALLY. Yes; that is all.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.

Senator STENNIS. I believe Senator Hunt addressed the Chair.
Chairman RUSSELL. I thought you addressed me.

Senator HUNT. I want to comment briefly on the two motions before

I find myself in agreement with the motion presented by Senator Saltonstall, and along the lines discussed by the senior Senator from Texas.

We were not directed, as I remember it, by the Senate, to even hold these hearings. There is no resolution to hold hearings on, and I do not know that the Senate has made any formal request on the committee to make a report.

Aside from that, Mr. Chairman, every bit of information with reference to these hearings that could possibly be made available to the people has been made available, and perhaps has been made more broadly, showing more than any committee hearings since I have been a member of this body.

Any report, whether it be a committee report, with majority and minority views, or whether it be an individual report, would be something where we would only be attempting, honestly so, to place the evidence before the people in such light as we see the situation in.

In other words, a report on this matter would be a report where we would attempt to formulate the thinking of the American people as a result of these hearings.

Now, as I say, the American people have the hearings; they have already digested the contents, and I do not think at this time it is a good thing for our country and for us to present to the people what I would term honestly slanted views that would further. divide our people at this time, more than they are at this time already divided. I think it would be a mistake.

The American people now have all the information; they are capable of thinking for themselves, and I believe this is one time when we ought to leave them alone and let them make their own conclusions and draw their own conclusions and do their own thinking.

Senator STENNIS. Mr. Chairman, I shall be very brief, but since this is such an important matter, it seems to me that everyone should express how he feels about it.

At the conclusion of this record I was very much concerned about a report and just what a report could cover and what it would cover and, frankly, I leaned toward the idea that there should be one.

Then the chairman came out with those excellent statements, that I think are a landmark in American history. It was so well received by the membership of the committee and so well received by the Senate, by the other Members of the Congress, and by the American people that it changed the atmosphere entirely in my mind, and I concluded from that that the presentation of this proof to the American people, together with this statement, and the presentation of it to the world, so far as that is concerned, was a most excellent place to leave this matter resting.

I am further confirmed in that by what has happened since. That has settled down in the people's minds, I think, and then we have this additional fact here.

I see no one suggesting that any report is needed for the purpose of legislation, for the purpose of passing on a treaty, for the purpose of forming any future policy. But in addition to that, we have this matter pending over there in Korea. It is related in a way to these facts, of course. But to go back into all these old facts seems to me like with reference to this matter in Korea that we must look to the future.

We are going to have this Japanese treaty, which is pending here, at San Francisco, and it brings up all this Asiatic matter again, and for us to be at loggerheads here about a report, except what is covered here by the Saltonstall resolution, it seems to me like it would be a most serious mistake, and I am very much of the opinion to present these facts, together with the sentiments of this joint statement, and then look to the future rather than to the past should be what we should do, particularly in view of these Korean negotiations and the Japanese treaty.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Cain is recognized.

Senator CAIN. My memory tells me, sir, that at the time the committee, by unanimous action, adopted the joint committee statement, that the chairman made it most clear that one should not consider that statement to be a committee report in any way, shape, or form. Is my memory correct?

Chairman RUSSELL. The Senator is essentially correct. I stated two or three times, and I have just refreshed my recollection from the record, that this was in no sense a report upon the issues involved in this hearing.

Senator ÇAIN. Yes, sir; which the substitute motion of the Senator from New Hampshire would result in taking action on.

Chairman RUSSELL, That is correct.

Senator CAIN. I thank you, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. That is correct.

I stated it was not a statement on the issues involved; that it did not undertake to deal with the issues involved.

It was a statement in the nature of a reassurance to the American people that we were strong enough to stand these divisions that are manifest here in this committee today. That was what it was intended for.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman, after hearing this discussion, I feel that the right line is to follow Senator Saltonstall's motion.

I do not think, on reflection, that the committee, as such, should make a report. I think a majority and a minority report would be most unfortunate. On the other hand, I feel it would be a grave mistake if we simply said there would be no comment on this thing at all, and I think that individual members of the committee are justified in expressing their views, and I would like to see done what Senator Saltonstall suggested, to have compiled the views of the groups or individuals.

I participated in the discussion with some of my colleagues, and I think we have come to certain conclusions that are of value.

I do not agree with Senator Green that that would make for controversy. That would only be the expression of individual views and would be a great contribution to the whole situation in the country.

My feeling is that the committee, as such, should not make a formal report. There should be no majority and minority views, but that we should submit, as has been suggested by both Senator Gillette and Senator Byrd to the Congress, the record of these hearings, and just a statement that we are submitting the results of our study, and we are also submitting the individual views of members of the committee who desire to submit such views.

It seems to me that is the orderly way to do it, and that is the result of a great deal of thought and a great deal of study by all of us. I would feel, I think, remiss if I did not state that I was called upon, in the light of my feeling in the matter, to express in a dignified way the conclusions I had come to.

If others want to do that, that is a contribution to a very important subject. I feel that the Saltonstall motion is proper. I favor the Saltonstall motion.

Senator MCMAHON. Mr. Chairman?

Chairman RUSSELL, Senator McMahon.

Senator MCMAHON. Senator Smith, I assume that you would not approve of a procedure whereby all the members of the committee would not have an opportunity to examine the views of other members? Senator SMITH. No, I am in favor of that. I think every member of the committee should examine the views of others if they want to, and comment on them, and associate themselves with their views. I would like to accommodate everybody's views.

If the Senator from Connecticut has any views, I would like to hear them.

Senator MCMAHON. I thought you would feel that way.

The Senator from Connecticut feels that Senator Stennis made a very excellent statement. He stated many things for which a report was not needed.

He might have stated that, perhaps, it is conceivably desired to have some statements for our future campaigns. I am not interested in that. I would like to help the general fulfill his desire which he made before the Congress to "fade away."

That has been proceeding in a very healthy way and at a very healthy rate in the last few months, and, of course, we will now proceed, I suppose, through the statements of views, in dredging it up again. But if that is the desire, so be it.

.Speaking only for myself, I shall try to so couch my views as comport with the evidence and facts.

I shall support the motion of Senator Saltonstall.

Senator KNOWLAND. Mr. Chairman, might we have a roll call?
Chairman RUSSELL. We certainly may.

Senator SMITH. What are we voting on?

Chairman RUSSELL. The first question is on the substitute proposed by the Senator from New Hampshire.

Senator GREEN. May that be read?