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Senator LONG. It seems to me fairly clear that the Communists are on their way with weapons, and we had better be organizing somebody to be ready for them at the time they have their people in the field.

Secretary MCNAMARA. I have last night changed the command structure of the U.S. military personnel in Latin America, and have taken action to place under the command of the Commanding General of the Caribbean all of the military missions and military advisory groups in the Latin American nations, all the U.S. military mission advisers.

Senator LONG. Thank you very much.

I think you made a very fine statement, by the way, and it would give the people of this country some confidence if you would make this presentation to them.

Secretary MCNAMARA. Thank you very much.

REPORT ON DEFENSE PRODUCTION

Senator SPARKMAN. Senator Aiken.

Senator AIKEN. Mr. Secretary, I have here page proofs of a 125page report, which had been prepared by authority of a subcommittee of this committee, which is intended to set forth the economic impact of arms control agreements upon this country.

In this report we find State by State listing of contracts of various sizes. We find also State by State sources of strategic material; State by State production of aircraft parts; State by State listing of atomic energy research for military purposes; State by State production of scientific instruments, and so on and so forth; also State by State deployment of all of our troops in this country.

This has been cleared by your office. Did it clear your office with your full approval?

Secretary MCNAMARA. I cannot recall clearing it personally, Senator Aiken. But I think that public disclosure of such information and, particularly, an analysis of such information as a foundation for a smooth adjustment to a lower military budget is highly desirable. I think my views on this subject are known throughout the Department and therefore I assume that it was cleared properly. Senator AIKEN. You have no objection to all this information being made available in report form?

Secretary MCNAMARA. I have not seen this specific information, but assuming it is what I think it is, I would not only have no objection but I would be very pleased to see it made public.

Senator AIKEN. You have already given your approval.
Secretary MCNAMARA. Yes, sir.

IS PUBLICATION PRUDENT?

Senator AIKEN. That is what I am pointing out to you. Your office has given its approval through the divulging of all this information as to source of supply for all our strategic material, our weapons of all kinds, of productive capacity for each time, and the distribution on a State by State basis.

Secretary MCNAMARA. I feel very strongly

Senator AIKEN. If I ever intended to get into war with the United States, I would give most anything to get a publication of this kind.

Secretary MCNAMARA. It depends, of course, on what other sources have already made the information available.

Senator AIKEN. Yes.

Secretary MCNAMARA. We have a very strong review process. Senator AIKEN. It will be very helpful to put it out in compact form so they won't have to go to all these other sources.

CLEARANCE PROCEDURE

Secretary MCNAMARA. Our review agency which clears material of that kind has in its files standards against which it applies new information and against which it checks old information.

Senator AIKEN. It was cleared by Captain Foster, Acting Director for Disarmament; by Samuel Zark, I take it, who has been helpful on it; by Foster Adams, I believe, who furnished the statistical material.

Secretary MCNAMARA. Perhaps, if I could just glance through it quickly, I could give you my personal opinion on it, but I can assure you that anything that is cleared in the Department—and we clear thousands of documents each month-is cleared after the review of our Security Review Office, which is the office that is presently under investigation and on which I testified before I came here this morning.

I would like to say two things. First, I have every reason to believe it has been cleared properly; but, second, as a matter of principle, I think it is very important that studies of the effect of disarmament on our economy be undertaken. I have encouraged such studies in the Department, because there has been a feeling in this nation that we cannot stand the price of disarmament.

I think that is an extremely dangerous feeling. My job at the moment is to build the military power of this Nation to higher levels, and I am engaged in doing that. I would like to see it disbanded just as fast as we can, but it cannot be disbanded without adverse effects on the economy unless we make those kinds of studies.

PROVING THE RUSSIANS CORRECT

Senator AIKEN. You never discussed the matter with Mr. Ed Murrow, for instance?

Secretary MCNAMARA. No, sir.

Senator AIKEN. Mr. Ed Murrow, in his report to the committee, said that it would prove everything that the Russians were saying about us, that our economy could not stand except on a war basis. Secretary MCNAMARA. What would?

Senator AIKEN. That this would prove everything Russia has been saying against us.

Secretary MCNAMARA. This report?

Senator AIKEN. That we cannot stand except on a war economy. Secretary MCNAMARA. Then this report is in error. I can document my own belief. I think it would be a serious mistake to publish anything-

TOO ACCOMMODATING

Senator AIKEN. If you want it published I am not going to disapprove the publishing of it. I am going to simply put in a statement that I consider it unwise to make this information available to any potential enemies in such compact and convenient form. I would make them work to get it. They probably have it anyway.

Secretary MCNAMARA. I think, in view of your feeling, I would personally want to look at this. But I am certain they have it, and I am almost equally certain that if they do not have it, we would not have approved the release of it.

Senator AIKEN. I think they probably have. But it is a very convenient breakdown on a State by State basis. It states what the orders for tanks are in each State, how many people in each State are employed in making the tanks, and what the payroll is; about where the aircraft parts are made on a State-by-State basis, how many people are employed, and what their pay is. It would just seem to me that it was a little risky or it was being a little too accommodating, perhaps.

Secretary MCNAMARA. I will be very happy to look into it, Sena

tor.

I have been amazed at the amount of information we in Defense put out on our capabilities, and I have taken action to reduce the amount of information disclosed. But there is so much in the public record already that I think it is very foolish to deny the release of information that is already made available publicly.

REPERCUSSIONS EXPECTED

Senator AIKEN. I expect that any potential enemy does know where ground control systems are made, where Atlas nose cones are made, and things like that.

I am not going to object to its being published, but I do not want to take the responsibility for its being published. If you want to take it, that is all right with me.

Secretary MCNAMARA. I would be very happy to review it.

Senator AIKEN. I would expect there would be some repercussions, though. I do not know.

Secretary MCNAMARA. I will be very happy to review it.

Senator AIKEN. I expect there to be repercussions. When Canada made a big sale of wheat to the country of Communist China I expected repercussions. I never got one single complaint from anybody on it, so it may work out like that in this case.

PUBLICATION SCHEDULE

Secretary MCNAMARA. I will be very happy to review the information which has already been published and, hence, the extent to which that is new information. When is the report to actually be published?

Senator AIKEN. This was sent to your office the last week in October with the intention of publishing it the first of November. I happened to be one of the members of this committee who was home, and I got it, and for a wonder I looked at it, and I immediately called the chairman of the committee and Senator Hicken

looper. The publication was delayed up to now. Most of the members of the committee, I think, half of them, were out of the country at the time, but I happened to be one who was home. Senator Hickenlooper and Senator Fulbright were home, and Senator Fulbright stopped the publication of it at one time until the full committee could consider it.

I do not know that there is a thing in there that should not be made public. I would take your word for it. but it seems that we are very accommodating in putting all this in one booklet form. Mr. Murrow thought it would have a-well, his report said it proved what the Russians were saying about us, that our economy could not stand except on a war basis.

MILITARY EXPENDITURES AND THE ECONOMY

Secretary MCNAMARA. Does the report, in addition to listing the installations and facilities, go further and discuss the relationship of those to the economy? Because I do not see how this could prove what the Russians were saying about us, unless there is such an analysis.

Senator AIKEN. Well, the purpose is to prove how the economies of the various States are dependent on war orders, and I do not deny the facts, but I am not sure that it is wise to give the facts to the whole world.

Senator SPARKMAN. Senator Aiken, may I suggest that you just give the report to the Secretary-

Senator AIKEN. We have met what they charge us with.

Senator SPARKMAN. Senator Aiken, I suggest you give the report to the Secretary and let somebody at the Defense Department look at it.

Senator AIKEN. This is the committee print.

Mr. MARCY. I know Mr. Bundy and I will hand it to him. Senator AIKEN. You have other copies and I have a copy, too. I was just wondering whether it was wise to do it or not. Secretary MCNAMARA. So far as the Russians' attitude or the rest of the world's attitude about it is concerned, it seems to me that when we have a military budget of $52 billion in relation to a gross national product of $550 billion, it is perfectly obvious that an important portion of our activity is devoted to our defense purposes, roughly 10 percent, and I do not think any information published in the report would bear on that.

Senator AIKEN. I do not know whether it is wise to admit it to the world or not, any more so than I am sure it was wise to admit the U-2 incident and the Cuban invasion. Maybe it was. Maybe we had better be strictly honest.

Senator SPARKMAN. Is that all?

Senator AIKEN. That is all. That is enough.
Senator SPARKMAN. Senator Gore.

DISTINCTION BETWEEN INDOCHINA AND NATO

Senator GORE. Mr. Secretary, I found your report encouraging in many respects. I also found reassuring your answers with respect to Vietnam, particularly when you drew a distinction-when you recognized its importance, but also, I thought, putting it in its per

spective by saying that no decision had been made as to the commitment of U.S. troops, thus drawing a distinction between that and NATO.

I say that, Mr. Secretary-and I can make my point easier by making a brief statement then by asking you a series of questions, I say that because it was not many months ago when officers very close to you, military officers, were recommending that the United States enter into combat action in Laos. I was greatly disturbed at that time that we might do so, and went so far as to go to the President personally about it.

I agree with you that South Vietnam is important. I think President Diem is the strongest leader with whom we can associate ourselves, but I think a few things should be recognized.

One, that any South Asian leader who associates himself with a European or an American automatically incurs the enmity of a very large portion of the population. Unfortunately that is true. Some of it is a hangover from colonialism; some of it may be racial, but, nevertheless, I believe that to be true.

The French had an army of 400,000 men in the Indochina Peninsula for a period of 7 years. They did not win.

CHINA'S STRATEGIC ADVANTAGES

The strategic advantages that Red China has there are somethings to give pause for lots of thought. When you couple that with your forecasts that sometime within 12 or 36 months from now Red China would achieve nuclear weapons detonation, certainly it gives pause for further consideration. So I was encouraged to hear you stop short of a commitment of U.S. troops in South Vietnam.

This is an excellent piece of work you have given us, and I am grateful for it.

SOCIAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM

I have made my statement, expressed my views with respect to the South Vietnamese situation, and I hope you will bear that in mind and give it consideration if the difficulty grows worse there, as I fear it may.

Incidentally, I returned from there about 20 months ago and recommended then that the United States urge and insist upon a program of social improvement in Vietnam. That program is now underway, and I am glad that it is.

HAPHAZARD NUCLEAR WEAPONS DEPLOYMENT

Mr. Chairman, I have a question or two about nuclear weapons. Are you familiar with the report that those of us who serve on the Joint Atomic Energy Committee made about a year ago about the haphazard dangerous way in which nuclear weapons were deployed?

Secretary MCNAMARA. Yes, I believe I am.

Senator GORE. Have steps been taken to improve that?

Secretary MCNAMARA. Yes, steps have been taken to improve it. Senator GORE. That is good. I congratulate you.

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