CONVENTION WITH TURKEY.

MY LORDS,

It is not my intention to trouble your Lordships with any general observations upon the Treaty of Berlin; and, indeed, in my opinion, Her Majesty's Government may fairly be congratulated upon many of the provisions contained in that Treaty. I shall address myself exclusively to two subjects which particularly concern the Queen's dominions in Asia-the despatch of Indian troops to Malta, and the Convention with the Porte of the 4th of June last.

When, some weeks ago, a discussion took place in this House upon the despatch of the Indian contingent to Malta, there was an understanding that it should be strictly confined to the constitutional question; because in the then state of affairs it was considered that to discuss the policy of the measure might embarrass Her Majesty's Government. This reason for reticence no longer exists, and I desire to take the first opportunity of expressing my approval of the course taken by the Government. I will not examine whether the despatch of the British fleet to Constantinople was necessary or right, but it is obvious that when once the fleet was despatched peace or war hung upon a thread, and, such being the case, it appears to me that Her Majesty's Government pursued a wise course in shewing that they were determined to support that step by the whole strength of this country-by calling out the Reserves at home, and by the despatch of a portion of Her Majesty's Native Indian Forces to Malta. The greatest loyalty and

enthusiasm was shewn by those troops, and the manner in which the movement was arranged is highly creditable to the head-quarter staff of the army in India, as well as to Sir Richard Temple and the Departments at Bombay who had to carry out the operation. The measure, moreover, has, I am satisfied, produced a good effect throughout India. During the war between Turkey and Russia there had been, as was natural, some excitement in India; rumours had been current in the Indian bazars regarding the power of Russia and.possible dangers to India. It had, therefore, an excellent effect that those who paid any attention to such rumours in India should see that when there was a probability of war between Russia and England, so far from any apprehensions being entertained of danger to India-so far from the British force in India being strengthened in order to provide against such dangers-the first step taken was to send away from India a contingent of native troops, who might if necessary take their part in the conflict. My Lords, I also think it is a good arrangement that some of the Indian troops should form part of the force detailed for occupying Cyprus; if, as I have no doubt will be the case, every precaution be taken to provide for their health. This is not the time to enter into the question of the employment of Indian troops in our garrisons in the Mediterranean in ordinary times; such an arrangement is a very different thing from the employment of a native Indian force on such an emergency as has recently occurred, or under similar circumstances, and it involves questions of no little difficulty. I will only say that I trust no decision will be arrived at regarding the general employment of Indian troops in the Mediterranean, or elsewhere out of India, in time of peace, until the question has been most carefully considered by Her Majesty's Government, in communication with the Government of India.

The next subject upon which I desire to address some observations to your Lordships is the Convention of the 4th of June, by which Her Majesty's Government have guaranteed the integrity of the Asiatic dominions of the Porte against Russian attack. It appears from the despatches of the Secretary of State, which have been laid before Parliament, that this Convention has no concern with the position of the Turkish dominions in Europe, as settled by the Treaty of Berlin. We have just heard from the noble Marquis (Salisbury), and I was glad to hear it, that the arrangements of the Treaty of Berlin have, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Government, secured Constantinople against Russia. The Convention is designed entirely for the purpose of protecting British India against dangers which are apprehended in consequence of the acquisition by Russia of Batoum, Ardahan, and Kars. The Prime Minister has said to-night that the Convention is necessary for the maintenance of our Empire, and for its preservation in peace, but neither he nor the noble Marquis have explained to us in what the dangers consist which the Convention is to meet, nor how the Convention itself will add to the security of India.

My Lords, as I believe Her Majesty's Government have, as many people are apt to do, very greatly exaggerated the power of Russia for offence, and have fallen in with the ideas of those who imagine that the least progress on the part of Russia is an immense danger to India; and as I think that the Government by this Convention, so far from having added to the strength of the Indian Empire, may have added seriously to its dangers, I wish, in the absence of any information from Her Majesty's Government, to examine a little in detail what the apprehended dangers to India can really be. We have often heard of the possibility of a Russian invasion of India, but is the invasion of India by Russia apprehended by Her Majesty's Government? I

presume not. If there be any such feeling, I do not share in it. If there were any such feeling, I do not think that this Convention is a wise measure of precaution. Those who have studied the Russian dominions, and the Indian possessions of the Crown, must be aware that there are two routes by which India cannot be seriously assailed. The first is from the north-east over the Himalayas, and the other is from Turkestan. The one from the north-east may be put aside as quite impracticable; and, to say nothing of the distances to be traversed, the resources of Turkestan can never sustain an invading force. We may take it for granted that the only route which presents even the elements of practicability for the invasion of India is by way of Persia. If Russia were to obtain a complete control over Persia, it may be said that she might collect an army at Teheran with the view of an advance upon India. I, myself, entertain no apprehensions on this score. The distance from Teheran to our Indian frontier is 1,500 miles, and there are many other reasons which lead me to put aside the danger as unworthy of serious consideration. But even if I should be wrong, this is a danger which can hardly be intended to be met by this Convention; for the Turkish territories in Asia which we have engaged to protect are not on the line between the Russian territories in the Caucasus and Persia, or between Persia and India, but lie far away to the rear of the line of operations.

My Lords, it is possible that Her Majesty's Government may be afraid that the Russians may advance through Asia Minor, so as to threaten the Suez Canal, or the Persian Gulf. As to the Suez Canal, I think the noble Marquis (Salisbury) a year ago answered conclusively the apprehensions on that score. command of the sea, the Suez say, if any precautions

were

So long as England has
Canal is safe. I should

to be taken for the

protection of the Suez Canal, they ought to be taken in another direction, and not by entering into this Convention. France and Italy are Mediterranean Powers, and it should be our policy to act in concert with them. What remains? The Persian Gulf. Is there any danger to the Indian Empire from the possible advance of Russia towards the Persian Gulf? I believe there is no risk of such an extension of Russian power in Asia Minor as can endanger our command over the Persian Gulf. But if it should be ever really threatened, we need feel no apprehension of being unable to take the necessary steps to maintain our interests; we should be close to our resources, our enemy far away from his.

But it may be said that although there may be no actual danger to India from the Russian acquisitions in Armenia, yet the prestige of Russia will be increased by them, the prestige of England will be diminished, and this will be disastrous unless some means be taken to counteract it. It it is possible that the acquisition of Kars may be considered in India as having added to the power of Russia, but I am altogether opposed to the doctrine that the existence of such vague impressions is a sufficient reason for undertaking liabilities such as are involved in this Convention; nor do I see that the Convention in itself is likely to counteract the effect of such rumours. My Lords, rumours regarding the advance of the power of Russia are not new. They have often been considered by Indian statesmen-and in the opinion of most Indian statesmen of late years, for instance, of Lord Canning, Lord Lawrence, and Lord Mayo-they should be met, not by such measures as are contained in this Convention, but by the good government of India, by the development of her resources, by the maintenance of friendly relations with our neighbours, and by satisfying them that we have no desire