course, I saw the record of our own Government. At that time, I think we had voted for five of these conventions. And I saw other nations of the world being dragged before this particular committee. It is a sort of inquisitorial body. And if you want to see these boys sweat, from the nations of the world, just see them come in and try to justify why they have voted for something that they haven't implemented.

So I became a great annoyance to the United States Government representatives, because, when they would bring in these other nations of the world, I would take the position and say, "Well, now, you voted for that convention. Why haven't you done something about it? Don't you believe in it?" And the answers were amazing. I wish sometime we could just go over the record of what took place.

But after having qualified myself, then I looked around at this great United States Government of ours. And when they came in, I began to take the position, which I thought was a pretty good way to put them on a spot, of saying, "You voted for these conventions, didn't you? Now, what action has the Senate of the United States taken on these conventions?"

And that left our representatives quite embarrassed. I said, "I think it is very much out of order for us to critize all these other nations of the world, when our own Government representatives come over here and vote for things that they know they can't put into effect, and then give no accounting as to to why. Now, let's get the issue on the table."

Well, they finally invented something. You see, up to 1948 they didn't have to account, because the Senate took the precaution that that protected us. You remember that little clause I read to you? Senator DIRKSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. McGRATH. But when they got to 1949, they had to give an accounting of all these. I think there are some forty-two since the inception of the thing that we voted for over there. And they were in a

mess.

Mr. HOLMAN. You mean they had to account to your committee as to why they didn't do something about it?

Mr. McGRATH. They had to account to this committee. Now, Charlie McCormack wanted me to serve on that committee, because he thought I could do a pretty good job. I just did a lot of questioning of these boys. And so when they got down to 1949, they got into a new period. You see, then the House and the Senate had ratified this new constitution. And I will bet there is not a Member of the Congress that remembers that he voted for the ratification of the new constitution of ILO. Well, under the new constitution of the ILO, our Government here, has to give an accounting to this conscience of ILO. And so, in 1949, I began to demand that our Government give an accounting. The situation was terrifically embarrassing, and they were putting pressure on me to sort of let up. I said, "I won't let up. You fellows quit voting for things that are absolutely un-American, and then you won't have to explain in an international conference why you voted for things and agreed to things in the world that you know we can't live up to. And I am just going to keep on embarrassing you." Of course, I was told I wasn't much of an international representative, that in some respects I was a great discredit to my country.

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I made it clear to them that I didn't represent the Government of the United States. I just represented the poor downtrodden employers in the United States, and I was speaking my own piece as a citizen of the United States, and I was going to keep on asking questions.

Well, then they finally sent over a very smart individual from the Department of Labor, and a very able man. His name is John Bobet. John Bobet is a good lawyer. And I think it was with John's help that they invented this idea that, "We will send all this stuff back to the States. We will send it out to the States, because we don't dare to turn it over to the Senate. We would just raise an awful smell if we tried to dump all these conventions we have voted for. We have to give an accounting. So now let's dump them back on to the States.'

Mr. HOLMAN. You mean the several States of the Union?

Mr. McGRATH. The several States of the Union. So I come back the next year, and I say, "I would like to hear what the several States of the Union have done on all these conventions." And the result was that it was just pathetic, you see.

Well, that seemed to be a logical answer. They had sort of run me down the street on that one. But I still kept saying, "You shouldn't vote. You shouldn't vote for conventions here that you can't get enacted." I said, "You know you can't get them enacted, even back in the State legislatures. The chances are there might be even less possibility of it."

So the next year they bring in this huge bale of records. The secretaries of state from the several States would report that no action was taken. It was the funniest, most amusing thing you ever saw in your life. But bales of paper were involved. And I think if you go over to the Labor Department today, you will find they are taking these conventions and, in order to get them out of your hair so that you won't know anything about it, they, are dumping them into the hair of the secretary of each State. Now, those poor boys don't know what to do with those things any more than you would know what to do with them, other than to vote "No," I suppose.

Senator DIRKSEN. I am surprised, Mr. McGrath, they did not make a more heroic effort to take you over, over there. Because you being a furnace manufacturer, they figured maybe you knew how to turn on the heat.

Mr. McGRATH. Well, of course, they spoke of heat in terms of hot air when I cut loose. Then I would go back to my favorite slogan, "Well, in our business many are called but few are frozen."

Senator DIRKSEN. Well, as a furnace maker, you have turned out to be a pretty good international lawyer.

Mr. McGRATH. Nobody thinks so. That is the only time I have heard it. I am just a source of annoyance.

Now, let's see here.

You are going to get some witnesses, I feel sure, that are going to come in with this sort of an explanation, you see, as to the reference back to the States. And that is going to be a hard one to get around.

But it may not be as simple as all that. Remember, the President or the Senate itself may decide as to whether a convention is, or is not, appropriate for Federal action. Suppose a convention arises which

deals with matters now handled largely by the individual States. Is there anything to prevent the President or the Senate arbitrarily taking the stand that some matter has now become one for Federal action? In that case, the Senate could ratify a convention and by so doing override large numbers of the existing State statutes and substitute instead a pattern of conformity to Federal law.

Now, the reason that I threw that in there is this: There are now pending, among a lot of other of these conventions, in the Foreign Relations Committee, one convention that has to do with the right to organize and bargain collectively. That is convention No. 87. And you ought to take a good look at that one. And then there is convention No. 98, which practically says the same thing. But when this convention 87 was written, they sold the employers at San Franciscothat Conference was held at San Francisco-that they wouldn't agree to the fact that a man should have the right not to belong, you see. He has the right to belong or the right not to belong, and then the right to bargain collectively or the right to bargain individually. And it was agreed that the other paragraphs would be incorporated.

But the office in Geneva forgot to include the other paragraphs. Now, that particular convention is still standing. And I say to you-and I am no lawyer-that if that convention should someday come before the Senate, and I think it was very deliberately moved in there, if they have too much trouble on the Taft-Hartley Act, they could come in through the back door with that one, and that would give you the closed shop in America, by an international treaty. I think you ought to take a good look at that convention No. 87 and convention No. 98.

There are a couple of other conventions that have to do with employment agencies.

Senator DIRKSEN. Let me pause a moment. Mr. Chairman, I think it would be interesting to insert the text of that at this point in the series.

The CHAIRMAN. Both of 87 and 98?

We will put them both in.

(The material referred to follows:)

(C. 87: Freedom of Associations and Protection of the Right to Organise Convention, 1948]

THIRTY-FIRST SESSION

(San Francisco, 17 June-10 July 1948)

CONVENTION 87-CONVENTION CONCERNING FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION AND PROTECTION OF RIGHT TO ORGANISE

The General Conference of the International Labour Organization,

Having been convened at San Francisco by the Governing Body of the InterLational Labour Office, and having met in its Thirty-First Session on 17 June 1948:

Having decided to adopt, in the form of a Convention, certain proposals conPrning freedom of association and protection of the right to organise, which is the seventh item on the agenda of the session;

Considering that the Preamble to the Constitution of the International Labour Organization declares "recognition of the principle of freedom of association” to be a means of improving conditions of labour and of establishing peace; Considering that the Declaration of Philadelphia reaffirms that "Freedom of expression and of association are essential to sustained progress”;

Considering that the International Labour Conference, at its Thirtieth Session, nanimously adopted the principles which should form the basis for international regulation;

Considering that the General Assembly of the United Nations, at its Second Session, endorsed these principles and requested the International Labour Organization to continue every effort in order that it may be possible to adopt one or several international Conventions;

Adopts this ninth day of July of the year one thousand nine hundred and forty-eight the following Convention, which may be cited as the Freedom of Association and Protection of the Right to Organize Convention 1948:

PART I—FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION

Article 1

Each member of the International Labour Organization for which this Convention is in force undertakes to give effect to the following provisions :

Article 2

Workers and employers, without distinction whatsoever, shall have the right to establish and, subject only to the rules of the organization concerned, to join organizations of their own choosing without previous authorization.

Article 3

1. Workers 'and employers' organizations shall have the right to draw up their constitutions and rules, to elect their representatives in full freedom, to organize their administration and activities, and to formulate their programmes.

2. The public authorities shall refrain from any interference which would restrict this right or impede the lawful exercise thereof.

Article 4

Workers' and employers' organizations shall not be liable to be dissolved or suspended by administrative authority.

Article 5

Workers' and employers' organizations shall have the right to establish and Join federations and confederations and any such organization, federation, or confederation shall have the right to affiliate with international organizations of workers and employers.

Article 6

The provisions of Articles 2, 3, and 4 hereof apply to federations and confederations of workers' and employers' organizations.

Article 7

The acquisition of legal personality by workers' and employers' organizations, federations, and confederations shall not be made subject to conditions of such character as to restrict the application of the provisions of Articels 2, 3, and 4 hereof.

Article 8

1. In exercising the rights provided for in this Convention workers and employers and their respective organizations, like other persons or organized collectivities, shall respect the law of the land.

2. The law of the land shall not be such as to impair, nor shall it be so applied as to impair, the guarantees provided for in this Convention.

Article 9

1. The extent to which the guarantees provided for in this Convention shall apply to the armed forces and the police shall be determined by national laws or regulations,

2. In accordance with the principle set forth in paragraph 8 of Article 19 of the Constitution of the International Labour Organization the ratification of this Convention by any Member shall not be deemed to affect any existing law, award, custom, or agreement in virtue of which members of the armed forces or the police enjoy any right guaranteed by this Convention.

Article 10

In this Convention the term "organisation" means any organisation of workers or of employers for furthering and defending the interests of workers or of employers.

PART II-PROTECTION OF THE RIGHT TO ORGANISE

Article 11

Each Member of the International Labour Organisation for which this Convention is in force undertakes to take all necessary and appropriate measures to ensure that workers and employers may exercise freely the right to organise.

PART III-MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS

Article 12

1. In respect of the territories referred to in Article 35 of the Constitution of the International Labour Organisation as amended by the Constitution of the International Labour Organisation Instrument of Amendment, 1946, other than the territories referred to in paragraphs 4 and 5 of the said Article as so amended, each Member of the Organisation which ratifies this Convention shall communicate to the Director-General of the International Labour Office with or as soon as possible after its ratification a declaration stating

(a) the territories in respect of which it undertakes that the provisions of the Convention shall be applied without modification;

(b) the territories in respect of which it undertakes that the provisions of the Convention shall be applied subject to modifications together with details of the said modifications;

(c) the territories in respect of which the Convention is inapplicable and in such cases the grounds on which it is inapplicable;

(d) the territories in respect of which it reserves its decision.

2. The undertakings referred to in subparagraphs (a) and (b) of paragraph 1 of this Article shall be deemed to be an integral part of the ratification and shall have the force of ratification.

3. Any Member may at any time by a subsequent declaration cancel in whole or in part any reservations made in its original declaration in virtue of subparagraphs (b), (c), or (d) of paragraph 1 of this Article.

4. Any Member may, at any time at which this Convention is subject to denuneiation in accordance with the provisions of Article 16, communicate to the Director-General a declaration modifying in any other respect the terms of any former declaration and stating the present position in respect of such territories as it may specify.

Article 13

1. Where the subject matter of this Convention is within the self-governing powers of any nonmetropolitan territory, the Member responsible for the International relations of that territory may, in agreement with the government of the territory, communicate to he Direcor-General of the International Labour Office a declaration accepting on behalf of the territory the obligations of this Convention.

2. A declaration accepting the obligations of this Convention may be communicated to the Director-General of the International Labour Office

(a) by two or more Members of the Organisation in respect of any territory which is under their joint authority; or

(b) by any international authority responsible for the administration of any territory, in virtue of the Charter of the United Nations or otherwise, in respect of any such territory.

3. Declarations communicated to the Director-General of the International Labour Office in accordance with the preceding paragraphs of this Article shall indicate whether the provisions of the Convention will be applied in the territory concerned without modification or subject to modifications; when the declaration ndicates that the provisions of the Convention will be applied subject to modifications it shall give details of the said modifications.

4. The Member, Members, or international authority concerned may at any time by a subsequent declaration renounce in whole or in part the right to have recourse to any modification indicated in any former declaration.