Mr. JAGO. The increased personnel, yes; but hardship allowances and other normal allowances will take up $32,000 of that. And there is an increase in allowances in other parts of the Service, transfer allowances, temporary lodging, and so forth, $7,371 of the total of $39,371.

TRANSFERS AND HOME LEAVE

Mr. FLOOD. Is that how you explain the increase requested for transfers and home leave $25,002?

Mr. JAGO. $31,000 of that will cover the

Mr. FLOOD. $31,000 of $25,000? That is a good trick.

Mr. JAGO. It will cost us $31,464 to send these new people out. There is a decrease or a saving of $6,462, making a net of $25,002.

FOREIGN SERVICE AND RESERVE OFFICERS

Mr. FLOOD. What is the difference between a Foreign Service officer and a Reserve officer?

Mr. JAGO. A Foreign Service officer has passed certain examinations at the hands of the Foreign Service Board. He is then appointed by the President and is on a career service. A Foreign Service Reserve officer is in a specialist class and is appointed for a period not to exceed 4 years.

MESSAGE CENTER

Mr. FLOOD. There is an additional employee for Mr. McGhee; what is that?

Mr. JAGO. That is in the message center.

Mr. FLOOD. What does that mean?

Mr. JAGO. That is the center in the Bureau through which all incoming and outgoing communications are handled; telegrams, letters, memoranda, and so forth.

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1951.

BUREAU OF GERMAN AFFAIRS

WITNESSES

HENRY A. BYROADE, DIRECTOR

ARTHUR A. KIMBALL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

Mr. FLOOD. We will take up the item for the "Bureau of German Affairs-domestic," which is set out at page 130 of the justifications, which page, if there is no objection, we will insert in the record at this time.

The Foreign Service part of the Bureau of German Affairs is set out at page 131, which page, as well as pages 133 and 134 of the justifications, we shall insert in the record at this time.

(The matter referred to is as follows:)

BUREAU OF GERMAN AFFAIRS-DOMESTIC

Conduct of diplomatic and consular relations with foreign countries

The 15 positions presented above for all three fiscal years were determined by the Bureau of the Budget (in the fiscal year 1951 "Salaries and expenses" hearings) as the nucleus around which a German desk can be established after termination of occupation. These 15 positions are therefore continued in the "Salaries and expenses" appropriation.

In fact, 63 positions were financed under "Salaries and expenses" in fiscal year 1950. However, 48 positions were transferred from "Salaries and expenses" to "Government in occupied areas of Germany" in fiscal year 1951. These 48 positions are not shown in the 1950 column above. Instead they will be shown in the 1950 column of the German portion of the appropriation "Government in occupied areas, Department of State" for 1952 to reflect a comparative transfer in 1950.

BUREAU OF GERMAN AFFAIRS, FOREIGN SERVICE

Conduct of diplomatic and consular relations with foreign countries

Conduct of diplomatic and consular relations with foreign countries—-Continued

NUMBER OF PERSONNEL REQUESTED

Mr. FLOOD With reference to the Domestic Section of the Bureau of German Affairs, apparently there is no request for an increase in personnel, and neither is there any request for an increase in funds; is that correct?

Mr. BYROADE. That is correct, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. However, with reference to the Foreign Service Section of the Bureau of German Affairs we find an increase requested of $444,133, together with a request for an increase of 60 local employees.

GENERAL STATEMENT

We are pleased to have with us Mr. Henry A. Byroade, the Director of the Bureau of German Affairs. Mr. Byroade, I assume you have a general statement that you wish to make with reference to your shop before we go into the budget, is that correct?

Mr. BYROADE. Yes, sir. I have no formal statement, but there are two short specific things I would like to say about this budget.

Mr. FLOOD. Before you begin, may I ask you how long you have had this job and where you come from?

Mr. BYROADE. I am an Army officer, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. FLOOD. You are now?

Mr. BYROADE. I am now. I was loaned to the Department of State 2 years ago tomorrow, to be deputy to Ambassador Murphy when the State Department first took over German affairs from the Army. Within a few months I took his place, when he was transferred to Brussels. I have had the present job, I suppose, somewhat over a year and a half.

Mr. FLOOD. Are you Regular Army?

Mr. BYROADE. I am; yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. What is your grade?

Mr. BYROADE. I am a full colonel. The Congress passed a bill on me last year giving me the authority to work in the Department of State.

Mr. FLOOD. Do you speak German?

Mr. BYROADE. I do not; I am sorry to say. I am sure the committee is very well aware, but I would like to point out, that this is only a fraction of the budget request of the Department of State for Germany, and it is a rather arbitrary fraction. Our main appropriations come under what we call GOAG, government in occupied areas of Germany. It was decided by the Bureau of the Budget and I believe with the consent of Congress that the budget should be broken down in this manner. On the domestic side you have a small figure here which is considered to be the nucleus of the future German desk if events come back to normal as far as Germany is concerned. Similarly the figures we are justifying for Germany are rather a small percentage of Mr. McCloy's staff. So we will be coming in for another. budget and, as I say, the figures here are rather an arbitrary fraction of the strength working on German affairs.

Mr. FLOOD. That is the domestic end?
Mr. BYROADE. That is both ends.

Mr. FLOOD. May we leave the matter of personnel and money for a moment? We are interested in hearing whatever comments you care to make with reference to the situation generally and that part that you care to make off the record, you may make off the record, and put on the record whatever you think should be on the record, in your discretion.

Mr. BYROADE. Thank you very much. I would like very much to talk to you frankly about some of our problems that we face in Germany, and I think I could do it much more freely off the record and then, perhaps, later, we could put parts of it back on the record. Mr. FLOOD. You may proceed on that basis.

(Statement off the record.)

Mr. FLOOD. How did you get into this? How did you get in such a spot?

Mr. BYROADE. I was first assigned to political military affairs in the General Staff in about 1944, and that is the process of working with the State Department on matters that affect both the military and the State Department. I got a little further into this work when I went with General Marshall as his principal assistant to China. When I came back I was assigned as Chief of the International Affairs Group in the Pentagon. The Berlin blockade came along about that time and became important. Although I had a world-wide shop, I spent most of my time on the Berlin problem. Finally-and I do not know what happened-I was transferred to the State Department, on loan by the Army, to help them in the German business.

Mr. FLOOD. Obviously, you were not old enough to be in the first

war.

Mr. BYROADE. No.

Mr. FLOOD. Did you ever fight Germans?

Mr. BYROADE. No. I was in the Far East all during the war.

DEFINITION OF GERMANS AND GERMANY

Mr. FLOOD. You have been using the term "Germany" and "Germans" very loosely. For the purpose of the statement you have just made which has been at some length off the record, with reference to the German problem and your recent visit there, what have you meant by using the term "German" and "Germans" in the last half hour?

Mr. BYROADE. I have been speaking, of course, of the people of the three western zones, Western Germany and western Berlin.

GERMAN CONSUL GENERAL IN NEW YORK

Mr. FLOOD. The Germans now have a vice consul, or a consul general in New York.

Mr. BYROADE. Yes.

Mr. FLOOD. How long has he been there?

Mr. BYROADE. He has been there 8 months.

Mr. FLOOD. Is he operating at the level of a consul general? Mr. BYROADE. Yes. There was a time, as I recall, after he got here, that travel was still in the hands of the Combined Travel Board, but that has been gradually phased over. I am not sure if it is complete, but it has been phased to the consul work. I would like to